Some music theory for the geeks

Unfolding · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:42 am **Posts:** 952

For those who are interested in applying a little music theory to their beats & sets may want to have a look at this:

It's basically the circle of fifths but layed out for a DJ/producer as a set of simple rules for how to go from one chord to the next. This circle of fourths guide looks pretty useful too.

Seems like most sample based producers don't use much music theory seeing our samples usually have that sorted for us to start with. We're a bit of a lazy bunch compared to what guitarists, pianists etc learn.

The way you can apply this theory to sampling is figure out what key your source is in & start relating everything around that. So if you're writing a complex beat in D minor you could switch to F major, G minor or A minor as effective chord changes.

Alternatively for a live set it would flow well if you follow a D minor track with the Fmaj, Gmin or Amin. The Amin would give the next track a feeling of 'rising above' the last track while the shift to Cmin would give the feeling of an energy drop even if you don't reduce the tempo. This is where the circle of 5ths/4ths would be really handy.

This program (Rapid Evolution 3) seems like it could be pretty useful as well for figuring out which samples are in what key (finding the root note with a keyboard only goes so far when you're dealing with tracks using complex scales like the 7 modes). Gotta admit I only downloaded it then & haven't used it yet... Plus its free unlike the Harmonic Mixing site's keyfinding program.

tape smoke · **Joined:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:06 am **Posts:** 1878

guess knowing this stuff would come in handy for , 4 or 8 bar walking bass lines, you know the mediteranian ?style ones.

thx · **Joined:** Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:00 pm **Posts:** 199

thanks for this

dStx · **Joined:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:09 pm **Posts:** 118

I took one music theory class years ago. I see why Dmin and Fmaj are related- they are the same chord- but how are Amin and Gmin related as well? Thanks

Unfolding · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:42 am **Posts:** 952

K.DeStefano wrote:

I took one music theory class years ago. I see why Dmin and Fmaj are related- they are the same chord- but how are Amin and Gmin related as well? Thanks

Basically, they aren't following the rules of the Dmin-Fmaj relationship. They are however a good rule for playing chord progressions

Note that a 5th is seven notes on a keyboard above the root. Each block clockwise or counterclockwise is seven notes above or below the root note you're moving from.

Therefore the Amin is 7 steps (aka a 5th) above the Dmin & the Gmin is a 5th below.

When reading the circles, keep the inner & outer layers separate. On the circle of 5ths reading vertically works (as you pointed out- because they contain the same notes, played with a different root). This is why the pic I attached links chords with the 7A & 7B codes. The number represents like-for-like, the letter represents where to play next.

Wait... Just realised that the link for the circle of 4ths is the same as the circle of 5ths (just looks different). What a misleading derp. Ignore that! Just stick to the circle of 5ths, if I find a clear & correct 4ths I'll post it here.

cadaver · **Joined:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:25 am **Posts:** 63

you think running a sample into a guitar tuner and reading what that bad boy has to say would be a decent way of figuring out what key its in? ive been wondering about trying that for a while...

admbmb · **Joined:** Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:06 pm **Posts:** 477

For guitar, I know scales and been studying theory, etc. However for hip hop, beats, etc...I just plink around on the keyboard and find all the notes that don't clash and build up my own scale. Then I just use my ear.

IIIII · **Posted:** Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:41 pm

admbmb wrote:

For guitar, I know scales and been studying theory, etc. However for hip hop, beats, etc...I just plink around on the keyboard and find all the notes that don't clash and build up my own scale. Then I just use my ear.

Yah me too.... But sometimes every note sounds bad then I'm really stuck

tape smoke · **Joined:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:06 am **Posts:** 1878

might have to detune your instrument then. everything should match unless its anti music,

Unfolding · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:42 am **Posts:** 952

cadaver wrote:

you think running a sample into a guitar tuner and reading what that bad boy has to say would be a decent way of figuring out what key its in? ive been wondering about trying that for a while...

Its a pretty reliable method for short chops, not so good for loops. Plus if you're sampling a chord & want to find the root the tuner can struggle if it isn't the loudest note in the chord.

admbmb wrote:

I just plink around on the keyboard and find all the notes that don't clash and build up my own scale. Then I just use my ear.

This. Combine the guitar tuner with a keyboard reference & you can't go wrong.

blavatsky · **Joined:** Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:35 pm **Posts:** 708

Quote:

Yah me too.... But sometimes every note sounds bad then I'm really stuck

Quote:

might have to detune your instrument then. everything should match unless its anti music

+1 on both....I've tried to layer live bass on samples before only to realize that the damn piano/string/whatever sample is flat/sharp to an annoying degree, so you have to accomodate with what you are playing. Then there is music that seems to have a flow/beat/changes that don't really accommodate much more layering/note based stuff on top (ie, maybe add some sweeps/noises/more percussion to beef it up)

Unfolding · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:42 am **Posts:** 952

See, the purpose of this thread wasn't just bout finding the right notes inside your beat but how to make your beat fit within a live set of many other beats.

Fair call to everyone who uses their ears to find what sounds right. We've all been subconsciously trained to hear right from wrong notes by listening to conventionally composed music. My point was how to make a live set on a sampler or two flow like a DJ's set. Complete with blends & all that shit they do. By matching keys using this wheel it falls into place a lot more reliably than guesswork (ie- using your ears).

Found this earlier today: http://blog.dubspot.com/harmonic-mixing-w-dj-endo-part-1/

It really explains what I was getting to better than what I managed. For instance:

Quote:

Music Theory wise, the Camelot wheel represents the Circle of Fifths. The Circle of Fifths shows the relationships among the twelve tones of the chromatic scale, their corresponding key signatures and their associated relative minor and major keys. It is really helpful when you are composing melodies and harmonies and moving in keys within a composition. For DJs it is just a handy chart that will tell you what tracks will go well together. Here are some examples of key combinations I like to use that you can try when you’re Harmonic Mixing and what effect it will have musically and on the energy of the crowd.

Staying in the same key (4A – 4A) (F Minor – F Minor) – These tracks will both be in the same key and are therefore perfectly compatible harmonically. Playing two tracks in the same key will give the effect that the tracks are singing together.

Moving up a Fifth (+1 on the Camelot Wheel) (4A-5A) (F Minor – C Minor) – This will raise the energy in the room. Harmonically these two keys are almost perfectly compatible. Only one note is different between the two scales.

Going down a Fifth (-1 on the Camelot Wheel) (4A – 3A) (F Minor – B flat Minor) – I like to say this type of mix will take the crowd deeper. The tracks will sound great together. It won’t raise the energy necessarily but will give your listeners goosebumps!

Going from Relative Minor to Relative Major (Change Letter on the Camelot Wheel) (4A-4B) (F Minor – A flat Major) – This combination will likely sound good because the notes of both scales are the same, but the root note is different. The energy of the room will change dramatically.

Going from Minor to Major (+3 and change letters on the Camelot wheel) (4A-7B) (F Minor – F Major) – While these keys might have 3 notes that are different, the root note is the same and can give a great musical effect on the dancefloor, either brightening the mood or darkening the mood.

Going up a Minor Third (-3 on the Camelot Wheel) (4A – 1A) (F Minor – A flat Minor) – While these scales have 3 notes that are different I’ve found that they still sound good played together, and tend to raise the energy of a room.

Going up a Half Step (Modulation Mixing) – (+7 on the Camelot Wheel)(4A-11A)(F Minor – F Sharp Minor) – While these two scales have almost no notes in common, musically they shouldn’t sound good together but I’ve found if you plan it right and mix a percussive outro of one song with a percussive intro of another song, and slowly bring in the melody this can have an amazing effect musically and raise the energy of the room dramatically.

Going up a whole step (Modulation mixing) (+2 on the Camelot wheel) (4A – 6A) (F Minor – G Minor) – This will raise the energy of the room. I like to call it “hands in the air” mixing, and others might call it “Energy Boost mixing”.

Playing the Dominant Key of the Relative Major / Minor Key (+1 on the Camelot Wheel and change the letter)(4A-5B or 5B-4A)(F Minor to Eb Major) – I’ve found this is the best way to go from Major to Minor keys and from Minor to Major because the scales only have one note difference and the combination sounds great

I've also searched around for info on a circle of 4ths, found nothing. I must've been making shit up there.

Some music theory for the geeks

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