FX on 404 vs 404sx

[Chulukinat]

I know that the Vinyl Sim on the 404sx is different than the one on the original 404. Did you guys notice more differences in the fx sections? Maybe just the quality of the fx... or maybe different parameters. Please share your experiences.

[IIIII]

the isolater is a little bit more handy. and when you want lofi you dont have to resample, the button instantly makes your sample lofi and you can switch it back to normal even when a pattern is playing.

[Chulukinat]

when you want lofi you dont have to resample, the button instantly makes your sample lofi and you can switch it back to normal even when a pattern is playing.

yeah i noticed that at a friend's. that's really dope. just wondering if it sounds the same as the original way.

[shabbster]

I am kinda bumping this thread.

I am really interested in a direct comparison (FX section & overall audio quality // feel)

cause I am a 404 User from day one, and more then interested in the SX. but the missing vinyl comp is a turn off for me and also the introduction to new media (not because I think its nonsense, just because I like to use as few as possible).

What interests me also is the audio quality. its being said that it was enhanced...this could be great or boring, I think.

Some in Dephts information would be more then appreciated.
if everything fails I will order a SX and compare it myself. there is a online shop nearby which features a testbuy for 30 days (full money back)

[meager prophit]

i own an 404sx and a 303 and a friend owns a classic 404.

I haven't had enough experience with the original to discuss the sound quality differences or major difference between fx besides vinyl sim. I think the 303/404 vinyl compression is excellent, as do most i figure. That said i enjoy having a basic high pass filter which replaces the compression of the other units vinyl sim. Essentially they are apples and oranges.

As far as funtionality goes the sx pads are much squishier and bouncier than on the 303/404. It takes a bit of adjustment in technique between the two.

The biggest upside i can see for the sx is the function key. It gives you 2nd funtions on all 12 pads allowing you to copy and exchange patterns without resampling. It also gives you auto-trigger levels when you are recording from external source allowing you to start your recordings once the sound level reaches a certain threshold. You can control input/output gain, turn of the illumination and do your backing up quickly and simply.

hope this was helpful.

[cartesia]

As far as funtionality goes the sx pads are much squishier and bouncier than on the 303/404. It takes a bit of adjustment in technique between the two.

the newer 404s have the same body shape, knobs, and button pads as the 404SX... so it depends if you get an old 404 or a new 404

[MadTrucker]

Allow me to chime in, as I have very recently owned both these units. There is a lot of talk about the vinyl simulation changes, the buttons feeling different, etc. I never grew any attachment to the vinyl sim in either unit. I mean, adding hiss and crackle is sort of like going backward for the whole SP series and also more of this "faux" mentallity like seqencing scratch sounds on a keyboard. So, liking the overall changes between 404 and 404sx has everything to do with which effects each user has grown attached to. For me, I use "DJ Looper" and "Delay" the most in both units, and I was delighted to see both of these outside the sub-menu in the SX.

I feel that all of the distortions are garbage, and always have been. The reverb on 1 in the submenu FX is a solid effect I have continued to use in both units, due to it being easy to find and effective in disolving rythmical elements from a sample. There is a second version of the DJ Looper that has always been at the bottom of the submenu...I don't see a purpose for that effect to have stuck around. I really like the effect that generates a subtone for building basic basslines, but it is too uncontrollable for me to use on stage, especially considering it is burried in the center of the submenu. Plus, the darker faceplate color, while looking super cool, makes the words near the effects submenu a much lower contrast and harder to read.

Hmn, lets see, what else...I still hardly use the sequencer in either unit, just because I prefer to sample loops from my other gear, rather than raw tones. However, if you like the mini-MPC feel, the SX has hooked us up with some slightly more evolved quantization, including a "swing." As this other user mentioned, it's a HUGE help to have the "function menu" basically be a shift command directly on the buttons.

It's not a substantial price increase really, since they kept the same basic faceplate design, so you can't expect every problem to be solved, but the sound quality improvement is noticable. Now, as far as just the effects section, well you know they are not getting any less digitized, and the texture of the effects are mostly just as thin and tin-y as in the first SP, but they are smarter in the effects that simply rearrange the tone instead of filtering it. Hi-fi is great on stuff like delay and DJ Looper, but terrible on distortion, and even lacking power and low end depth on the envelop/flange type effects.

Effects will not improve until they install a tube like the last line of Electribe gear, and some actual occilator-driven effects. The SX tried to be smarter by changing the range of the effects to not be so wild, but typically shortening the range of an effect setting on a knob also shortens the range of what is possible for that effect. If you like effects with more reasonable extremes, then the SX is for you, but if you like more out-of-control effects then the classic 404 would be better. I just use the SX and two Kaooss pads, and dream of the day when one of these two lines will implement a tube like the electribe.

...maybe if that electribe was even smaller...I know it's small, but not small enough.

[wax inspektor]

the new WAH is way doper than the old imao...
timestreching is better too...

the wave converter is a joke...

[meager prophit]

is the wah on the old 404 similar to the one of the 303? if so then it is a piece.

[* warrika *]

I feel that all of the distortions are garbage, and always have been. The reverb on 1 in the submenu FX is a solid effect I have continued to use in both units, due to it being easy to find and effective in disolving rythmical elements from a sample. There is a second version of the DJ Looper that has always been at the bottom of the submenu...I don't see a purpose for that effect to have stuck around. I really like the effect that generates a subtone for building basic basslines, but it is too uncontrollable for me to use on stage, especially considering it is burried in the center of the submenu. Plus, the darker faceplate color, while looking super cool, makes the words near the effects submenu a much lower contrast and harder to read.

The distortions are good, on toms and kicks anyways. The subtone is not really good for live use (although someone may find a use for it), but it's great for making kicks with resampling.

The reverb is indeed very good, but I find the delays to be cheap sounding (on the SX anyways, I haven't tried the regular 404), way below the ones on Electribes or the Boss DR-202, but strangely enough a little bit better sounding with the input than with the sampler's sounds.

Back to the topic of comparison, as far as the DJ looper, they put it on its own button on the SX. You can simulate vinyl scratching/manipulations with it, not that I am too crazy about it, but I like it better than the bpm looper, which just seems to simulate cd skips.

The SX has that voice transformer on its own button while the 404 has the pitch shifter there. Another difference is the extra parameters for the phaser and flanger on the 404.

[dman5000]

if anyone has both the sx and the og 404 ... maybe u can make the same beat with the same samples on both, like something real simple on the 4's, just to see how it sounds diff.... just a suggestion

[shabbster]

^^
this would be dope and would answer the last question regarding this topic, at least for me: sound quality comparison. so two unprocessed wavs of the same effects on both units bending some sounds pumped up on soundcloud would be just "pure awesome bliss"

[shabbster]

I compared the tech specs of both units on the roland site regarding the bit depth:

SX: it only says that it features 16 bit linear sampling, the A/D D/A processors arent mentioned

classic: it says that it uses its own format, which is pretty known, but the A/D D/A converters are processing the signal in 24 bit.

this kinda surprises me in a way.
the own data format of the classic aside it mixes it sounds in a 24bit depth environment = more headroom then 16 bit because of a better signal to noise ratio.
but what about the SX? what kind of converters I dont think they "downgraded" just to put the words "linear phrase sampler" on it, did they?
It sounds like the isnt really any processing just straight 16bit in and out, but there must be any converters...

(correct me if I am wrong in anything Ive said)

thanks

[shabbster]

anybody got info now bout what Ive written weeks ago? ^

[cartesia]

it doesn't matter that the converters are 24bit on the 404, the samples are stored in lower than 16bit in some compressed format.. running a low qual sample through good converters doesn't increase its quality

even if the SX only has 16bit converters it will still be better than the 404 because the samples are full 16 bit, not compressed.