Getting that duck sound....im struggling.

[spwarlock]

So I know the 404 can't sidechain.....and I know this has been asked before but I'm still not sure exactly how it works so could someone explain this to me.Also some tracks i hear it almost sounds like the chops are being hit w/ silence via the isolator button when the kick hits..... for example most of GRIMM Dozas stuff if anyone is familiar with him.Thanks for the help y'al:)

Edit:Going back through past threads apparently I was right sometimes folks do use silence to get the ducking effect.Jesus they're so many work rounds for this machine I love it!!!

[medearis]

Adding silence will work if you are triggering right on the kick drums, if not then you might be making things a little harder. Adding silence like that sounds like a winner but also a workflow-killer.

[spwarlock]

Heres my attempt at ducking w/ the subsonic method....thoughts??
https://soundcloud.com/spwarlock/duck-bump

[NJ killz Niggaz]

that beats was really dope but I didn't really hear the ducking that much. Using the subsonic on the kicks then using the vinyl Sim usually works on the 404.

[spwarlock]

I noticed it didn't really work right....could someone explain what I'm missing...what I did was 1)Loop my drums and instead of using a kick I used a subsonic bass hit2)Compress the loop w/ my chops.3)Insert a kick where the bass was and then resample....am I missing something or does it does take some fine tuning to get it right?

[spwarlock]

that beats was really dope but I didn't really hear the ducking that much. Using the subsonic on the kicks then using the vinyl Sim usually works on the 404.

Thanks man! yeah I think i need work on it some and make sure I'm doing stuff right.

[janglesoul]

I don't really know this, so I'm of little help. But I think I recall reading something about a trick like this, sort of:

1. Make a fast, deep subsonic kick.
2. Tune it down (pitch or octave) til it's inaudible - that is below human hearing (20 Hz).
3. Add this kick to your beat - resample etc.
4. Compress the whole beat - pumping/ducking should appear - and resample.
5. Hi-pass filter your compressed beat to remove the inaudible low frequencies so that they don't disturb your mix going into the speakers.

Maybe someone experienced could correct this if it's wrong.

[spwarlock]

I don't really know this, so I'm of little help. But I think I recall reading something about a trick like this, sort of:

1. Make a fast, deep subsonic kick.
2. Tune it down (pitch or octave) til it's inaudible - that is below human hearing (20 Hz).
3. Add this kick to your beat - resample etc.
4. Compress the whole beat - pumping/ducking should appear - and resample.
5. Hi-pass filter your compressed beat to remove the inaudible low frequencies so that they don't disturb your mix going into the speakers.

Maybe someone experienced could correct this if it's wrong.

Do you know if i should include my regular kick before i compress or add it after?Will it work if i add it w/ the sub before compress and resample?

[janglesoul]

I don't really know this, so I'm of little help. But I think I recall reading something about a trick like this, sort of:

1. Make a fast, deep subsonic kick.
2. Tune it down (pitch or octave) til it's inaudible - that is below human hearing (20 Hz).
3. Add this kick to your beat - resample etc.
4. Compress the whole beat - pumping/ducking should appear - and resample.
5. Hi-pass filter your compressed beat to remove the inaudible low frequencies so that they don't disturb your mix going into the speakers.

Maybe someone experienced could correct this if it's wrong.

Do you know if i should include my regular kick before i compress or add it after?Will it work if i add it w/ the sub before compress and resample?

Good question! Maybe it's better adding the kick afterwards? Like I said, I haven't tried this.

[spwarlock]

yep i tried it out and adding the kick after sounds better...but honestly my timings not so good so i might just need to stick w/ keeping the kick in sampled w/ the subsonic.The only issue is the kicks seem to sound too sharp when put through the sp compressor...any fixes for this?

[belli]

try layering your kicks with an analog kick (e.g. 808 kick) to add some bass to your original kick, then resample, then vinyl sim or mfx12, then eq to fix the roughness of the compression a bit. finally, add a duck.

[l i f]

That duck is the perfect duck.

[kel]

For getting the ducking sound with vinyl sim on the 404, it's all about the levels you sample in.

Try experimenting like this:

Sample a kick, then your "music" part, both fairly hot, at the same peak level. Then apply vinyl sim. The compression won't have much dynamic range to work with so you won't get much of a ducking effect. You can turn down the level of the music and apply vinyl sim again and it will work a little better, but......

Now sample (not resample) the same sounds from the same source, but this time, sample the kick in hot but the music at a lower level, around half. Now throw that vinyl sim on.... Major Duck!!!! I think I found this info on SP-Forums a million years ago. It was referred to as the "Madlib Effect".

[hseiken]

Ducking is all about ratio of the item that's being ducked to the item that'll duck it.

If you think about a compressor this way, it makes it a little easier to set things up...

Basically, the compressor is a dude wearing earphones turned up to max volume that he can stand and he's got his hand on the knob. If something is too loud for this dude, he turns the volume down of the whole stereo. This includes the stuff that didn't really hurt his ears...but it goes down too. Then when the loud noise is gone, dude cranks up the volume again up to as loud as he can stand it. If that loud sound was quick, this gives the impression of ducking. How far the difference is between the kick and the shit being ducked is what gives the impression of 'harsher ducking' etc.

And ultimately, you don't want to trigger the guy to turn the volume down except for the kicks/snares, and then you want it to 'pump' hard...well the pump comes from that distance of volumes between the kick and music...the further away they are, the deeper the duck...the closer they are, the more subtle the duck, because ultimately that guy's not changing the volume all that much since the music and kick are just as loud..

With this knowledge, you can actually play around with the tail on the kick and how long it is or how sharply it drops off...the sharper the dropoff, the less 'pumpy' it overall it will sound in the compressor. If it ramps off slower, then the compressor responds like that...i.e. you can somewhat shape the pump via shaping the kick.

Anyway, that's all I got on it...it gets easier to predict effects if there's a way to wrap your head on just what the fuck it's doing. Something that works really nice to 'enhance' the ducking effect is to run the music parts through a super hard compressor to max out it's volume then resample that shit. Then turn it down inside the machine (lower the sample level) then couple it up with your kick/snare shit in the compressor...This way your compressor isn't even really paying attention to the music's dynamics because you already removed them with the resample. So then you're just playing with the dynamics of the kick/snare and the sample.

[spwarlock]

Ducking is all about ratio of the item that's being ducked to the item that'll duck it.

If you think about a compressor this way, it makes it a little easier to set things up...

Basically, the compressor is a dude wearing earphones turned up to max volume that he can stand and he's got his hand on the knob. If something is too loud for this dude, he turns the volume down of the whole stereo. This includes the stuff that didn't really hurt his ears...but it goes down too. Then when the loud noise is gone, dude cranks up the volume again up to as loud as he can stand it. If that loud sound was quick, this gives the impression of ducking. How far the difference is between the kick and the shit being ducked is what gives the impression of 'harsher ducking' etc.

And ultimately, you don't want to trigger the guy to turn the volume down except for the kicks/snares, and then you want it to 'pump' hard...well the pump comes from that distance of volumes between the kick and music...the further away they are, the deeper the duck...the closer they are, the more subtle the duck, because ultimately that guy's not changing the volume all that much since the music and kick are just as loud..

With this knowledge, you can actually play around with the tail on the kick and how long it is or how sharply it drops off...the sharper the dropoff, the less 'pumpy' it overall it will sound in the compressor. If it ramps off slower, then the compressor responds like that...i.e. you can somewhat shape the pump via shaping the kick.

Anyway, that's all I got on it...it gets easier to predict effects if there's a way to wrap your head on just what the fuck it's doing. Something that works really nice to 'enhance' the ducking effect is to run the music parts through a super hard compressor to max out it's volume then resample that shit. Then turn it down inside the machine (lower the sample level) then couple it up with your kick/snare shit in the compressor...This way your compressor isn't even really paying attention to the music's dynamics because you already removed them with the resample. So then you're just playing with the dynamics of the kick/snare and the sample.

Damn man some awesome tips...gonna try it out tonight:)