Chopping breaks, not getting the sound I want.

[tunnelno5]

I chop breaks, eq them, then compress but I can't get the resulting drum sound I'm looking for. I'm not talking about groove and sequencing, but the speaking specifically on the sonic qualities of the drums.

I always hear about the well respected producers chopping breaks so even if I can resort to drum packs, I'd rather take the long, honest road.

It's been driving me nuts. There is a drum aesthetic I want, but I'm not able to achieve it yet, which makes me feel like I am not improving. I feel like I have a better ear for melodic samples in comparison to how bad my drums sound to me.
I'm in the crates digging breaks and chopping individual hits. Here's some examples:

Impeach the president, Lil Feat, a lot of the famous breaks a lot of the SP-forums family knows.

http://instagram.com/p/nBLGkkCtKt/
http://instagram.com/p/mCmddTitEd/
http://instagram.com/p/lFOleHCtCs/


The sound I am after is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmzaYEhV2Eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl2eEI7a46A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVhiIwIj7CE

The drums have a similar vibe, I've been trying endlessly to chop breaks, eq, and compress them, but I can't get this nice, polished sound.

[ImOnlySleeping]

Nobody cares if you chop up breaks or you use sample packs. Most people layer their sounds anyway, so they don't sound like the break or the hits from the packs.

I personally layer my drums from different packs and records to get my desired sounds. Nobody is gonna call you fake for using sample packs. It takes more skill to layer drums from different sources and make it sound like you want it, than to just chop a single break and get a kick, snare, and hat.

I want to help you more but i don't really fully understand what you're trying to describe when you say polished.

Maybe try making your individual drum hits shorter. So they sound cleaner. Idk

Also realize that those tracks you posted aren't made on SP404s lol.
They eq the sounds before they sample them in.
They mix and eq their tracks properly
You are hearing the mastered version of the track

Nice beats btw. Jealous of those samples

[soopington]

layer 'em up g. You can go through and chop up stuff then process them on a computer to get exactly what you're looking for. If you are trying to work within the SP's FX you will have to experiment until you find a rough path to get what you want

nice tunes too!

[MattCoops]

If you're EQing and compressing the kick, you should get a nice sound. Do you have a legit equalizer? Try just dropping out, rather than boosting. Start from the right and work your way left. Is that sounding better?

I peeped the instagram videos and you're using ill sounding hi hats. (My computer doesn't have good low end sound.)
And the 3rd vid has a nice sounding kick with some deep bass.

I can see where your frustration might be stemming from, but I don't agree that your sound is off. It's sounding pleasant to my ears.
It's good to have sounds that inspire you. But keep messing around and cultivate your own signature sound.
Don't get frustrated. Have patience. And the more you experiment, the closer you come to finding a style original to you.

If you're looking for deep kicks. Try some late 70 / early 80s disco records.
But I definitely think you have your hi hats down tight.

[MattCoops]

layer 'em up g

Oh, and speaking of layering.
Notice how you are hitting an effect pad and getting a compressed, sort of lo-pass.
Try recording that in one track and then layering it underneath a second track of the same, without the effect.
Try layering tracks of kicks with 2 or 3 different effects.

If tracks is confusing you. Resample.

[tunnelno5]

Nobody cares if you chop up breaks or you use sample packs. Most people layer their sounds anyway, so they don't sound like the break or the hits from the packs.

I personally layer my drums from different packs and records to get my desired sounds. Nobody is gonna call you fake for using sample packs. It takes more skill to layer drums from different sources and make it sound like you want it, than to just chop a single break and get a kick, snare, and hat.

I want to help you more but i don't really fully understand what you're trying to describe when you say polished.

Maybe try making your individual drum hits shorter. So they sound cleaner. Idk

Also realize that those tracks you posted aren't made on SP404s lol.
They eq the sounds before they sample them in.
They mix and eq their tracks properly
You are hearing the mastered version of the track

Nice beats btw. Jealous of those samples

Thanks for your input Sleepy, I've been jazz heavy these days. As when it comes to polished sound, I mean drum hits in the links I posted above, I can't really explain it, haha.
I guess I am expecting a bit much from the SP404, but even when I listen to producers like Elaquent, Samiyam, etc, they have some sounds that I put in the same caliber as Suff Daddy, Eric Lau, etc. I'm not dropping names to compare, but all the producers I listed have nice drums that I haven't achieved with the knowledge I have yet thus far. However, I've just recently started truncating/trimming my drums a bit tighter which I think definitely makes a difference. For some reason, I can't come believe that those drums I want are from various drums layered. Maybe I'm just too naive, I always thought one drum source, eq'd and processed properly would be enough?

Good looks on your input bro!

[tunnelno5]

If you're EQing and compressing the kick, you should get a nice sound. Do you have a legit equalizer? Try just dropping out, rather than boosting. Start from the right and work your way left. Is that sounding better?

I peeped the instagram videos and you're using ill sounding hi hats. (My computer doesn't have good low end sound.)
And the 3rd vid has a nice sounding kick with some deep bass.

I can see where your frustration might be stemming from, but I don't agree that your sound is off. It's sounding pleasant to my ears.
It's good to have sounds that inspire you. But keep messing around and cultivate your own signature sound.
Don't get frustrated. Have patience. And the more you experiment, the closer you come to finding a style original to you.

If you're looking for deep kicks. Try some late 70 / early 80s disco records.
But I definitely think you have your hi hats down tight.

Matt, I forgot to mention I'm trying to do everything in the box. I do have logic, however, I'm going pretty minimal right now; turntable to dj-mixer to the SP404sx.

Ever since I got the SP404sx around 3 weeks ago, I think I'm over-killing the compressor. I got brainwashed into compressing everything to get that ducking feel which I'm not quite achieving yet either, haha. Could you explain the right to left and dropping rather than adding? As for EQ'ing, my steps are as follows.

1. Ill chop the break into individual hits.
2. I'll EQ each hit, my method of EQ'ing is so rudimentary as I have little knowledge. For the kick, (2,12,12); snare (12,2,12); hat (12,12,2). (knob1,knob2,knob3) in the EQ parameter.
3. I'll put a compressor on everything, all the knobs on max. The drums sound good when the sample is playing along with it, but the drums sound like shit when it's playing alone.
4. When I put the compressor on the drums, no matter how much I mess around with the knobs, the kick for example always seem to pop.


I feel like I'm writing too much... Need to experiment more, thanks for the input fam, wish my homies out in Seoul messed around on SP's >:0

[Leptic P]

for the kick ,try filter+drive

[Larry Gordon (g)]

don't really understand what you're going for, and I definitely don't have much experience with the 404 as a lot of the posters on here, but here's some stuff i would keep in mind:

- if you're not hearing enough thump and snap from your drums, it could be the rhythmic samples you're laying the drums over with. (this assumes you're using these drum breaks over other material.) sometimes if i'm playing drums over recorded sample chops that are very bassy or have a lot of mids or his in it, i don't really hear the bass-mid-his of the drums I'm lacing over it with.

- the breaks you put up in the instagram video sounded very nice. if you're looking for something polished and clean, it could be the source of breaks you're sampling from, the turntable you're using, or the fact that you're on a SP-404, which may seem hi-tech clean compared to the other SPs but is still a relatively filthy animal.

- be wary of the way you use compressor. there are gazillions of threads on here that talk about different methods of using compressor with samples and drums. it's choosing what sounds you want compressed and at what volume and what sounds you don't need to have compressed that is important.

- also, if you're talking about a 'pop' that sounds a bit like a click when you're using compressor, that happens sometimes with compressor is maxed out on a sample and you don't have it playing with anything else at all. you don't need compressor maxed out all the time, and if you're using a compressed sample with another pad/sound/etc., you probably don't need all the knobs maxed out.

hope this helps dude. fuck whatever Samiyam or anybody else's sound is. you're not going to sound like them (hopefully) because you both are different creative beings who are going to interpret and process sound, including drums, differently. i understand your frustration stemming out of a devoted inspiration from other fools but don't let that get in the way of chopping and slopping up that pretty SP you got. good luck, meng!

[Rabot]

It's also quite crazy how clean the 404sx sample compared to other stuff.

Try a sampletrak or a 303. I just gor a E-MU Ultra 5000 and even tho it's supposed to be pretty clean, it definitely modify the sound a bit and I actually like that.

[lodger]

filter out the parts of the kick and snare that you dont need- this frees up a lot of sonic power. the other really important thing is sidechain compression....this really helps your kicks and snares have a lot of clarity in the mix.

the thing to keep in mind is that having drums that sound good in the mix is all about eqing etc to fit the beat etc.

[LimpyLoo]

I just listened to that Suff Daddy track.


The snare is HPF'd (hi-pass filtered) so as not to have any unnecessary low end. Same with that metallic hi-hat. And the kick doesn't have alot of hi-end.

Unfortunately, the SP's don't have straight-up HPF or LPF, so you can't get very surgical with EQ'ing. However, you should be able to get pretty far with the 3-band EQ or the isolator.

The key to clarity is cutting out unnecessary frequencies. This goes for drums as well as everything else. Also in that Suff Daddy track, the bassline doesn't intrude into the hi-end spectrum, and the synth chords don't intrude in the low end. The kick has a pretty well-defined 60hz fundamental thump, and the bassline sits a little above that in the frequency spectrum.

As the saying goes: A place for everything, and everything in its place.

[LimpyLoo]

Oh and don't forget to compress your shit. That is a biggie.

[tunnelno5]

Thanks everyone for their replies thus far, I have been dabbing with the isolator as well the EQ. What's the difference? From what I'm hearing, I feel like the EQ boosts the samples and the isolator serves almost as a tool to cut frequencies from the samples. 12 o'clock on the knobs is unity for the EQ and Isolator, correct?

[LimpyLoo]

yeah I'm not exactly sure what the difference is, but the isolator seems to be more drastic so I'm thinking that on the isolator each band (i.e. knob) has a broader 'Q' (e.g. bandwidth). So essentially the frequency spectrum (20hz to 20khz) is roughly cut into thirds and each knob controls its respective chunk of the spectrum. That's why you're able to remove virtually all the low-end or hi-end from a sample.

Whereas the EQ seems to be more focused and subtle, so turning the 'hi' down all the way wouldn't actually remove all the hi-end like it does on the isolator.

That's my take, but I dunno.