The Arena and Motivations to Participate

[lodger]

hey all

I was thinking about the battles section/format and was wondering if there was anything we could do as a community to help people have a more satisfying experience participating. One of the ways that we'd be able to do that is by exploring what motivates people to participate and helping to deliver those motivators in a more effective way.

For example, as a musician, i'm pretty isolated from my audience so battles are one of the main ways to have others listen to my stuff. Also, I really enjoy the input/constructive criticism component to it.

A current issue is that the norm with stuff now is that generally the only feedback that is certain is an all or nothing vote on who wins...where the votes of people are likely to be self serving i.e. "I want to win so i'll vote for someone other than another would-be frontrunner". So, personally speaking, i'd be more inclined to participate if feedback was better and if there was a way to get a wider audience for the battles.

my question: what makes you compete\not compete in battles? what is the big payoff to you?

[aNT0JE]

the whole arena and beat battle concept is about using your production skills on one particular machine with resrtictions on the samples choice. So it's basically a process of turning something whether its good or bad into something hot.
I wouldnt even consider uploading a beat that i do not like myself and that i aint proud of. I get more satisfaction by doing beats wit no restrictions other than my own imagination..
and to be honest, i really suck at making sample-based shit.
but some people on the boards can really flip doodoo into necksnappin tracks, its incredible. much respect, wouldnt even be able to do that.

EDIT++: and honestly the whole feedback and judging shit is something i couldnt give less of a fck about. its not like you get munee everytime u get a vote for a beat u did. do it for yourself and for the competitive side of it if it fits your production

[kel]

What keeps me from participating in recent battles is that sometimes I'm just not feeling the sample, either because it's too repetitive or too busy... nothing is open for me to isolate. That and being lazy.

How about a "potluck dinner" battle? everybody gets to choose one 5-second sample (of anything at all). You PM it to the host of the battle, and on battle day, we have this short playlist of a variety of sounds to work with. Participants are eager to hear how others have used their sounds, so everybody is likely to have a stronger connection to what's going on and therefore stay interested.

Or...............





New tournament based on a fighting game YYYYYEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHH

[kel]

@Lodger, thanks for addressing this and I agree, reaching a larger audience would def boost activity, as long as we kept feedback to every vote (so not to corrupt the poll).

[lodger]

potluck would be interesting, but the one issue would be people bringing samples that dont fit harmonically, etc. now if the person curating the battle would run them through software like mixed in key to get songs, etc that work well, then you'd have something to work with.

On a side note, I wonder what the site might also be able to do to help facilitate mentoring. That would also help up the quality of the beats, help novices grow and help keep the older "been there done that" heads in the game. I really like teaching and wouldn't be adverse to helping others figure out production.

[lodger]

"EDIT++: and honestly the whole feedback and judging shit is something i couldnt give less of a fck about. its not like you get munee everytime u get a vote for a beat u did. do it for yourself and for the competitive side of it if it fits your production"

I agree, but think that a big part of getting better and expanding skills is getting feedback, suggestions from others, and knowing what draws or pushes people away from your stuff. Like you, i do my music for personal reasons...this being said if someone has suggestions for how i could enhance my work, i'll always hear someone out

[ImOnlySleeping]

That potluck idea sounds great. Id definitely want to participate in battles like that. Aside from laziness sometimes i don't feel the samples. and like someone said earlier...i feel a little limited. I make beats with all the battle samples but i never submit because it doesn't reach my standards for myself. The limitations are defeating sometimes.

On a different note.. i think some of you guys should make some of those long beat making we all love to watch so a couple of the new members could learn how to build a track start to finish using an SP. That would definitively help people improve and be the first step into building the confidence to be a part of the battle.

I know hip hop used to be about secrets and shit in the beginning but why wouldn't you want the culture to move forward and improve. Just by sharing tips.

Sharing tips and ideas = More dope beats

[providloe]

if u run em they will come ray liotta told the truth

[aNT0JE]

"EDIT++: and honestly the whole feedback and judging shit is something i couldnt give less of a fck about. its not like you get munee everytime u get a vote for a beat u did. do it for yourself and for the competitive side of it if it fits your production"

I agree, but think that a big part of getting better and expanding skills is getting feedback, suggestions from others, and knowing what draws or pushes people away from your stuff. Like you, i do my music for personal reasons...this being said if someone has suggestions for how i could enhance my work, i'll always hear someone out

u dont need beat battles to get some feedback though

[Unfolding]

But a lot of that feedback's super limited, like 'OMG SHITS AWESOME1'. It'd be good to get some constructive criticisim, the kind that addresses what worked & what could be done better. Too often folks sharing online aren't ready for that kinda honesty & get defensive... Which could be why Lodger wants to change things up.

Maybe if we just get everyone to respond when voting to a battle with a set of rules like 'list 1 positive of the track, 1 negative, be constructive, respond to all entries, don't repeat what the last guy said, encourage the noobs'. Just a thought.

^A third of my motivation when battling is to get honest feedback, I'd really appreciate it if someone told my shit stinks rather than going silent. The other thirds are to get recognition & to one up the competition.

[gry.clds]

Not taking so long between battles would be great.

[strangev]

I haven't participated in a beat battle on this board yet, mainly because of laziness. I tried once, and I just didn't feel the sample. Maybe instead of samples the beat battles could be based on themes (like a videogame as kel suggested). I like the idea of the resample challenge too, are they still running?

[EndorShores]

I love battles. For me its not having time. Any free time is spent doing dumbshit like killing snakes and fixing washing machines. I havent had time all year to check out any of the music in the music forum. I know im missing out on all types of good shit.

[asha c]

For me it's basically just practise without having to find samples. I try to give feedback when I have time and I often think it would be nice if people also gave feedback, not like butt kissing, but comments on what worked and constructive criticism and tips on what could've improved the beat. As far as voting goes, I just listen as I write and then read over the comments Ive made and relisten to the ones that have stood out according to my comments to decide who to vote for.

[lodger]

"Maybe if we just get everyone to respond when voting to a battle with a set of rules like 'list 1 positive of the track, 1 negative, be constructive, respond to all entries, don't repeat what the last guy said, encourage the noobs'. Just a thought."

I really agree. I think its important that with novices, we make it a point to nurture their development and give constructive criticism. Beat battles should serve the sample purpose as sparring in martial arts....provide an opportunity for application of skills, see strengths and weaknesses, and to foster improvement. I kind of think that win/lose might not be as valuable as feedback on whatever people do make. if people dont have time for a full beat, make a 20 sec loop ,etc.