SP Treck III - The search for Loops

[Gary_Rock]

Just maybe plain sampling without loop capture is the way to go..

And all I had to do was RTFM...

If you specify the BPM (tempo) while you’re still in sampling
standby mode, the end point (the timing at which the sound
stops playing) will be automatically set after sampling to a
beat of the BPM value you specified.

And

You can add a count-in (1, 2, 3, 4) when you start sampling.
This is convenient when you are sampling with a specific
tempo or time signature in mind.

Meaning: Use the actual sampler.. Loop capture is just a honey trap, there to suck in the new guys and waste their time.

And maybe if you want stuff in time with the actual sampler use the actual sampler!

Lest we forget this from the same hallowed pages..

Loop Capture and Sampling use different internal
processing, the length of a phrase recorded by Loop Capture
will not precisely match the length of the sample saved in the
pad. For this reason, the sample’s BPM may be slightly
different

Does anyone use the SP555 like this to capture loops? Or are you all using the so called "loop capture - Overdub - pedal and prey" technique.

[Gary_Rock]

I have tried this and it works for me.

The only thing that stops this being ideal is hitting the sample button to stop in exactly the right place (although it should always be on a beat). But I don't mind learning how to do this if it gives me results I can use rather then loops with glitches. (No glitches this way)

And if I record my bass guitar riffs to a multi tracker first I can have both hands free to start and stop (easier then using nose or toe).

I hope this saves other peoples valuable time.

I'm happy coz I believe I can start making music this way with this otherwise awesome piece of kit!!

[Gary_Rock]

By the way to do this press Time-BPM for the count in and press start-end for the end on beat to the global BPM, whist in sample standby (this is when you first press sample and before you press it again ).

Although I'm sure that hardened SP users knew all this, I feel it is a major breakthough for loop capture widows like me

Doesn't work with resample so I guess I need to record externally and bring it back through the sampler to apply effects and still loop.

But who cares when you can have lovely loops all over the friggin place

[postbreakmelody]

i use the loop capture if i used up the polyphony
and i wanted to add more layers. i capture my pattern
in the loop function throw it back to a pad then back to
pattern. now i can add more unecessary ishct.hahah

[sharpmotif]

Was trying to find this topic, had to use an external search engine (yes, the evil one) to find it.

I was going through the manual again and found another interesting tip for SP-555 users.

Page 29, Adjusting both the start point and end point, MEMO:
"If you specify the BPM (tempo) between steps 3 and 4, the end point will automatically be set to the location of the beat that is closest to the timing at which you press [MARK] in step 4 (in units of beats of the BPM value, beginning at the start point)."

I don't remember this being mentioned before and while I do like the idea of having ninja skills for marking, it's a nice touch.

Gary_Rock: Despite it's several major flaws, Loop Capture can be useful - even for it's intended purpose - (if the silence trick is used).

While having the ability to actually sample while playing other samples would be nice and some styles of music require longer samples or actual tracks for guitars/basses/synths, Loop Capture is still the only possible way to have a click going/samples playing/pattern sequencer running while sampling - and keeping a SP-555 only workflow. Not the best option, but works.

I am not too keen on recording guitars without some sort of rhythm guide, at least for longer samples that is (so Loop Capture is good enough for short guitar samples and anything else should be recorded to a DAW first, like you said).

It's actually possible to sample while playing samples: USB input. Only found out about this recently, it's on one of the topics about the SP-555's audio interface. USB input is on while resampling (as is Loop Capture, thus the resample trick to "Save to Pad" without killing everything). It's not perfect (of course) as it mixes USB input with whatever samples are playing at the time.

[Gary_Rock]

Wow good update!

Page 29, Adjusting both the start point and end point, MEMO:
"If you specify the BPM (tempo) between steps 3 and 4, the end point will automatically be set to the location of the beat that is closest to the timing at which you press [MARK] in step 4 (in units of beats of the BPM value, beginning at the start point)."

I think that this might well be the missing link for doing it all on one box for me!

1) Capture with loop capture in Free mode against metronome and don't play up to either end of the capture - ie don't try and pedal in and out close to the recorded riff and capture more then you want.

2) save to pad - as way longer both ends of the sample you want

3) do this BPM trim method to take the portion you want to loop..

I'm trying this tonight!!

I got a second 555 to do this but if this new method works then I won't lose sample quailty over the wire. And once again it was in the manual all along Doh! - Good find sharpmotif!

[sharpmotif]

Hope it works.

Made a quick test last night with the D-Beam synth + Slicer FX and it seems to work fine. Synth + Slicer (or any pattern based FX) works alright as it is with Loop Capture but I was able to turn a 4 bar loop into a 3 bar loop, so it did "auto-mark" the end based on BPM.

That is a nice little trick to make more precise bass lines, as opposed to using Subsonic (actually "chocking" the D-Beam so it stays on the note chosen with Ctrl 1).

Back into topic: It's possible to get a clean start in the 1st bar, using the silence trick then punching in like in the 3rd bar or so, so you'll have a count-in (as long as one doesn't play anything in that bit).

Recording in free mode will require the same precision with the Mark button - but I do agree that it gives a bit less room for error/clicks. Also, it won't be mandatory to pass everything through loop capture to make sure they'll play nice with each other.

Another thing is that it's better to record loops without FX, then use resample - a necessity for infinite loops/drones or anything with trails/evolving patterns (delay/reverb/phaser/flanger/etc) - kinda annoying for "feeling" when recording but gives way better results.

[Gary_Rock]

Nope

So the problem with this marking both ends of the loop approach is that you have to do it all while the sample is playing. And dialling up the target tempo on Crl 2 is too time consuming to be able to do during the duration of short samples. I assume your test samples are of a length where this was do'able? Maybe I'll get it with practice.

The issue I found with loop capture and using silence first is that done this way it is an overdub on a repeating loop. So it you play over the bar length, it murders the beginning. If you don't play up to the end the music drops out. So it's a bit arse for a sustained last note. Do you use auto start here?

I have had some fun capturing drum patterns using auto start and hitting play at the loop point but that first cymbal is always cut and the results are not really usable.

The BPM button whilst sampling technique I mentioned further upgives good loops/samples that can be sequenced. Two SPs rather then a multitrack means half as much bouncing between devices and from what I can make out seems to be what a lot of guys here are doing, who don't use pcs.

[sharpmotif]

And dialling up the target tempo on Crl 2 is too time consuming to be able to do during the duration of short samples. I assume your test samples are of a length where this was do'able?

Yeah, at 100 BPM it gets almost impractical to mess with anything less than a 2 bar loop. Using Tap Tempo could work better. There's a split second before registering the Mark button input, so if you press Time/BPM too fast it will go directly into sample edit mode.

So it you play over the bar length, it murders the beginning. If you don't play up to the end the music drops out. So it's a bit arse for a sustained last note. Do you use auto start here?

It needs to be exaclty on beat, works better for rhythm parts with a little space/rest before the end point (like staccato/palm mute/reggae stuff, for example). Sustained notes will choke if recording straight or overlap to the start point if overdubbing over silence. Auto start can work but it's too much of a hassle to setup for guitars.

I have had some fun capturing drum patterns using auto start and hitting play at the loop point but that first cymbal is always cut and the results are not really usable.

It seems to work well for kicks with a sharp attack and appears to work better for USB input for some reason (I've got good results before messing with VSTi synths and stuff). Thing is it's nothing like the auto start on Boss Loopstations, as far as I remember they don't provide input adjustments but still work like a charm for that.

The BPM button whilst sampling technique I mentioned further upgives good loops/samples that can be sequenced.

Yeah, I guess in your case it would be better to use that and maybe use the other one with metronome on to monitor with a click.

While going through A/D\A conversions is not that great, if you keep it to a minimum I don't think it will be all that bad.