Basslines

[Sinapse]

wondered what lot of ya'll do with your basslines.

I always just go with what sounds good - and I'm pretty happy with my results - but lately I been over-thinking it, I don't know shit about music theory but is there anything simple and obvious I'm missing that helps you get it in the right key?

If people say shit like "nah, I just go with what sounds right"...it will make me feel a lot better

[genn bo]

most of the time i just go with what sounds good but there are a few tricks:

bass notes are sometimes hard for me to distinguish, so i play them a few octaves higher along with the sample to find the right notes and progression and then record the right octave.

as the "cheating" method, you can use WiDi software to identify notes of the sample and then just play some of those bass notes.

[nobdy]

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[Sinapse]

Read up on some music theory man. It's worth it.

Learn some scales, chords and def learn how to use the circle of fifths.
Ones you gain some understanding you will open new doors.

I can see how if you are using keys and writing all your own music this is important, but if you are heavily sampled based I think it's more by ear, b/c you are mixing and matching multiple samples and you just have to blend them. I wish it were as easy as playing keys in the right key. That part is simple enough to me, you just read up on it, my question is more related to blending multiple samples with the bassline. Also I don't use a computer at all in my process and have ZERO desire to do so, so I can't "cheat" and get the actual scale/notes of the sample using software. I think I answered my own question tho...thx for the responses so far and more input welcome

[Sinapse]

I was just reading up on "music theory"...obviously it'll take more than half an hour to get anything useful out of it, it's intriguing...but I still think it's more for people that are composing from scratch. I have always been playing my "ear" not instruments in scales, so it's greek to me if you know what I mean...

[nobdy]

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[Sinapse]

I was just reading up on "music theory"...obviously it'll take more than half an hour to get anything useful out of it, it's intriguing...but I still think it's more for people that are composing from scratch. I have always been playing my "ear" not instruments in scales, so it's greek to me if you know what I mean...

Well it's def not something you will understand right away nor is something that can be mastered imo.

But learning it will give you a better understanding of how sounds/tones work together. Whether you are sample based or you make things from scratch, having a better understanding of what you do and why never hurts.

yea I totally feel you on gaining understanding...that's why I went ahead and started reading on it. It's something I had thought of doing for a while but thought maybe it wasn't really applicable. Over the years I have studied how bass sits in music by listening to countless records from just about every genre out there, and I think I just trained my ear that way, at this point it's like mixing left brain with right brain by going into the book explanations

[a.D.]

no disrespect to and-o,but imo the best music of all time in any genre has been created by people that have no technical understanding of music theory at all..which played a big part in them creating ground breaking works--they weren't working within a box..and when you get too wrapped up in the math and technicalities of music-it can really take away from your creativity

When it comes to basslines,again-it really does come down to what sounds good to you-that is if you have real knowledge on hip hop/beat making..and i know you're someone who knows what sounds good...other than that theres mad approaches to take as far as playing your basslines-some of the best producers keep them simple,some make them complicated..some play mainly on the downbeat,some place their bass stabs in more random,non-traditinal places in the beat structure.Again-when it comes to this,i gotta go back to kev brown,lol-if it weren't for his basslines,a lot of his beats would be mad boring-but he almost always plays a dope melody with his bass,which often times creates more of the beats melody than the samples he's using,and a lot of times have nothing in common with the melody of the sample he's using-they're kind of a counter-melody. and of course his main influence on the basslines was pete rock,so he's definitely someone to study-he's done much more than just filtered basslines.

As far as getting them in tune-just scale a mid range note out,with a bunch of higher and lower ones-and find the one that most matches the first downbeat of your track...that's how i do it,(& all i got is 8 levels on the st,or 12 on the 202)and i just go from there-once you find that main root note just build from there,and in a few minutes you'll have a good handful of pads that all match any part of the beat-then it's up to you how you wanna play it....& as you know,even just a one or two note bassline can be dope-a good example of this is the alchemist produced prodigy joint i just posted on the mobb thread...just one note-that's it,but it's the bassline on that track that takes it to another level.

But ya know...at this point i'm willing to bet you'll be good with just going with what sounds right. I got some high expectations for all these beats you got hidden away btw,lol -trust me,i got my best shit stashed too.Espescially beats that I've gone all out on with the basslines... I'm getting closer and closer to having all this stuff ready....anyway,hope this doesn't sound like just a bunch of hot air and at least helps somebody,if not you. as yall can tell-I really love talking about this shit,lol....only thing i'm truly passionate about & takes my mind off the madness.

[a.D.]

I can also say that a really talented bass player once told me that the main function of a good bassline is simply "to fill up the empty spaces..."-i mean that's a simplified explanation,but kinda what i'm talking about with not just limiting yourself to playing your bass just when kicks & snares hit,like so many beatmakers do...you can even try playing your bass only in parts where the main kicks and snares don't hit.Makes for an interesting sound.

[Sinapse]

no disrespect to and-o,but imo the best music of all time in any genre has been created by people that have no technical understanding of music theory at all..which played a big part in them creating ground breaking works--they weren't working within a box..and when you get too wrapped up in the math and technicalities of music-it can really take away from your creativity

When it comes to basslines,again-it really does come down to what sounds good to you-that is if you have real knowledge on hip hop/beat making..and i know you're someone who knows what sounds good...other than that theres mad approaches to take as far as playing your basslines-some of the best producers keep them simple,some make them complicated..some play mainly on the downbeat,some place their bass stabs in more random,non-traditinal places in the beat structure.Again-when it comes to this,i gotta go back to kev brown,lol-if it weren't for his basslines,a lot of his beats would be mad boring-but he almost always plays a dope melody with his bass,which often times creates more of the beats melody than the samples he's using,and a lot of times have nothing in common with the melody of the sample he's using-they're kind of a counter-melody. and of course his main influence on the basslines was pete rock,so he's definitely someone to study-he's done much more than just filtered basslines.

As far as getting them in tune-just scale a mid range note out,with a bunch of higher and lower ones-and find the one that most matches the first downbeat of your track...that's how i do it,(& all i got is 8 levels on the st,or 12 on the 202)and i just go from there-once you find that main root note just build from there,and in a few minutes you'll have a good handful of pads that all match any part of the beat-then it's up to you how you wanna play it....& as you know,even just a one or two note bassline can be dope-a good example of this is the alchemist produced prodigy joint i just posted on the mobb thread...just one note-that's it,but it's the bassline on that track that takes it to another level.

But ya know...at this point i'm willing to bet you'll be good with just going with what sounds right. I got some high expectations for all these beats you got hidden away btw,lol -trust me,i got my best shit stashed too.Espescially beats that I've gone all out on with the basslines... I'm getting closer and closer to having all this stuff ready....anyway,hope this doesn't sound like just a bunch of hot air and at least helps somebody,if not you. as yall can tell-I really love talking about this shit,lol....only thing i'm truly passionate about & takes my mind off the madness.

thanks for the reply a.D. +100 on all that. you echo my thoughts on the subject pretty much. ESPECIALLY for Hip Hop of all genres there were def no rules or structure being followed in the roots.

I have been going back thru my catalog last few days and reason I posted this thread is b/c looking back on a big sample of beats, some of them the bass is a lil out of key and it pissed me off how I didn't catch it at the time...I chalk it up to making those beats high as fuck, late at night, with headphones lol...when I'm really taking my time and grinding on a beat I get the bass the way I want...the thread was kind of stupid to make from my perspective now, I was wondering if there was some magic trick I'm missing out on but obviously it's done by ear unless you are writing your own music, and even then as you said many greats still do it by ear with no formal training

+1000 on breaking out of simple bass patterns layered with kicks. I'd have to say that basslines are consistently the biggest weakness in beats

at calling me on keeping shit under wraps...I haven't released anything in soooo long, but that will all change soon...album coming soon with a bonus d/l of all instros, so it's really like an album + a beat compilation

[nobdy]

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[Sinapse]

I agree that there are amazing artists that make amazing music with no technical knowledge what so ever, but I also know artists who were amazing to begin with and once they put in the time to learn music theory, their music got even crazier.

You may be super talented or have tons of skills/experience now, but why does that mean you shouldn't put in the effort to learn more to keep leveling up.

Not trying to sell you music theory or anything, but knowledge is power mang. I love music very much so I will to learn as much as I can about it till the day I die.


Anyways as for bass lines, another tip I've always hear and try to follow is to keep it simple and don't overplay. Take out notes if you have to.

Indeed man, knowledge is power and any understanding you gain is only gonna help. I will continue to read up on it, but after taking in the basic introductory explanations I found myself saying fuck it this isn't relevant to me and what I'm specifically doing...but I KNOW that it is. We are making music and it's the theory of what we are making, but there is a strong argument that its not necessary

Def a balance b/w not being too simple (notes layered with drums) and overdoing it, in my own work I find that I often simplify my bassline from the first improvisation, which always seems to be too busy

[a.D.]

If any self taught musician with talent that's been doing shit for years starts reading up on music theory-they'll usually be surprised at how much music theory they already know...i mean certain things come naturally for people with a gift for music. Of course there's always more to learn-but if you keep reading into it sinapse,I'm sure there will be many things you already do that are a part of music theory..& you just didn't know that you did...Not to mention that people that write & teach about music theory-their ideas basically stem from people that didn't know music theory,or came from a time period where "music theory" wasn't even a term...it was just a natural thing for them. that's not a knock on you and-o,i'm just saying...music theory itself comes from musicians that stepped out of the boxes/boundries of the music of their times.Bottom line is yea,reading up on some music theory can't hurt,but i wouldn't get wrapped up in it,it's definitely not gonna make or break anyone with true talent.

[a.D.]

btw-i'm not trying to call you on keeping shit on the low,that's a good thing,and something i have a hard time doing..a really hard time. But I'm basically doing the same thing,with the exception of a bunch of beats i consider to be kinda throwaway ones...I've made the mistake too many times in the past of being so eager for people to hear shit as i'm working on it-that there's no surprises left when my shit is actually released,lol.

[tape smoke]

i didnt notice this trick mentioned yet in this thread,

if your sample has a bit of bass but nothing special you can run subsonic on your sample to make a it more fat, but sometimes the pitch wont match, you can also try resampling with center cancel and a bit of reverb, then stack it on your sample it will make it more basey