Hey all,

I'm currently looking to pick up a hardware sampler of some sort (possible 'semi-hardware but I'll get to that later).

I haven't been making beats for long, but come from a long background of 'live recording', been playing guitar in bands for the best part of 15 years, and messing with recording was always part of that. However, over the past few months I've found myself moving straight into 'electronic' production. I work on experimental, downbeat stuff with a hip hop flavour.

I won't lie, I heard of the SP through seeing some live videos of some of my favourite beat makers, people like Flying Lotus, TokiMonsta et al, basically the LA Beat Scene, Brainfeeder stuff.

Now, my requirements are something that is primarily great for sampling, something that I can easily just plug in a turntable, iPod, guitar amp or whatever and grab a sample, and equally importantly chop it up how I want and map it to pads. Of course I can do this in Logic, and map it to the pads on my Midi keyboard (MPK) but it's a long winded process (kinda) that kills my creativity. However, I do want to be able to easily get my stuff out of the hardware into Logic so I can add other stuff and mix it. I love working on hardware though so this is why I'm keen to find a 'hands-on' solution.

Now, I'm looking at either the SP404SX, an MPC1K (slightly over my budget) and a Maschine. The things that stand out about the SP are the effects look amazing, and am I right in saying I can put together a beat on the SP, then resample the whole thing back into it, add effects and then map that whole beat back onto a single pad, and continue from there? The other thing is the price, the SP is the cheapest of the 3 options and that's a big plus!

The things that bother me about the SP are the lack of a proper display, and the lack of velocity... are either of these really deal breakers?

Obviously the MPC speaks for itself but I feel it might be 'overkill' since it's designed to be an all-in-one groovebox and I'm not necessarily looking for that, I'd say 50% of my workflow or more will still be software/computer based.

And lastly, Maschine, we all know it's pro's and con's, but there is this constant nagging that it really is just a controller and effectively I can do all the stuff it does right now with Logic. That being said, the way it does do it is very smooth and despite being 'tied' to the software, it still looks like an attractive workflow.

So, with that wall of text in mind... I'd love to hear some thoughts. Is the SP right for me? Unfortunately the audio stores near me don't have the SP on demo, so it's gonna be a 'blind' purchase... hence me doing a bit of research.

Thanks

Hmm...I have an SX, and I use Logic, and I am a guitar player. If I could pull it off, I would go with maschine. Yes, it's just a controller, but it beats the SX hands down for serious sample editing. The SX is great for well defined loops, but precision editing is NOT easy at all. I find myself creating good loops in Logic, and then exporting them to the SX.

I know machine is expensive, but I drool when I watch people chopping samples across pads, etc.

I'm thinking of selling my SX.

Thanks man,

Yeah I'm thinking you're right. I think the SP would be awesome as a live tool, but for production, where I'm gonna be sat next to my computer and other stuff anyways, the Maschine has it.

Maybe I'll pick up Maschine first and then an SP later when I get some spare cash.

I just finished watching a short sampling demo on the micro-maschine. Hands down, it beats the SX in editing samples - just because of the waveform in the display! I know it's not the same, as the entire mess is hosted on the computer, but that just makes it easier for people like me to keep the files in the same domain, minimizing transfer.

I did something really fun when I first got my SX. IT happens to fit nicely on the console of my 2009 Honda Civic, and it plugs directly into the aux of the stereo, and runs on batteries. So, I was literally pounding pads while driving down the road (don;t tell the cops, they might lump that into "texting while driving". LOL).

Anyway, yeah, the SX is great as a standalone sampler, but weak in precision editing on the box itself. Although, some people eon this board have become experts at it! One other advantage of the SX as far as standalone, it can store massive amounts of material on a card...you could probably DJ with it all by itself, and include enough material for a 2-4 hour party, no problem!

Think about the fact that the producers that you've mentioned (only some of them) use currently the sampler and use it mainly in live shows except (from what i read) Samiyam and maybe Teebs that use it in production.

I think it depends on your production style (and why not your budget), if your production is based on a DAW and you want to play yourself synth etc. I'd suggest you the Maschine or some other controller that allows you to make full use of your daw (keyboard+pads&knobs).
If your production is mostly sample-based I would choose for a sampler like the 404 or 404sx.

I bought the Roland sp404sx a couple of months ago and I'm very satisfied, it's easy and funny to use, love it, I think it will always be part of my little setup (very very very litlle for now ) but.......recently I've noticed that sometimes I would like to build something without necessarily resorting to the samples, I want create my melodies and my music so recently I am deepening the use of my daw and honestly my next purchases will be in this direction (Mpk Mini I guess and change my audio/midi interface).
For now my choices are limited by my budget, I can not buy expensives analog synths or Mpc's, Op1 etc (even though in the future I'd definitely have them) so i play my ableton synths for now, I want upgrade my skills and after my instruments.
Definitively the integration of the sampler in a production Daw-based (and viceversa) is not always easy in my opinion.

I hope I don't have made too many mistakes with my english , hoping it could be helpful man!

Find a used sp404 for cheap and try it out. If you don't like it just flip it back up on craigslist.

You won't know for sure till you try it out for yourself.

As for display, you do most of everything on the sp's by ear. And velocity, you can resample the same sound on different pads with diff levels and use those.

Question is, would you be down with the workarounds? I love using the sp but my friends hates it . He prefers using his mpc or mv to do all that stuff.

Thanks guys.

Ya know, the more I deliberate on this, the more I'm leaning toward the SP. I'm attracted by its 'charms' and limitations, it feels like it could add a bit of fun to my music whereas Maschine is basically a tool that's gonna get shit done quicker that I can do already with my DAW and Midi.

The funny thing is, I actually like the idea of the fact it's limited, and possibly lo-fi, and super hands on. I'm so used to having everything so 'clean' and digital with my current setup (pretty straightforward just a MPK49, MOTU 8PRE and a MacBook) that I want some hardware I can get into.

Another thing, can I send my finished tracks to the SP in some way or maybe like create a bunch of 'blocks' in My DAW of various parts of my tracks, then stick them on the SP and re-arrange them? Might be a cool way to come up with new arrangements.

As for finding one used, I'm in the UK so choice is limited, I had a look on eBay and I wouldnt save much by going used. The price of a new one is definitely attractive though, and well within my budget whereas an MPC is out of my budget, and a Maschine is right on the limit.

Well, the SX is super clean - so you have to purposely lofi the samples. And yes, you can create loops in the DAW of premixed, ready to go sections, and rearrange in realtime, or use the sequencer to trigger in some order.

And here I am looking more seriously at the Mikro Maschine! It's about $349 USD. I'll probably hold off for a bit to see if the urge sticks around.

I was in a similar situation that you are in a couple of months back.

My problem was that I was sick of clicking around with my mouse/touchpad and then use MIDI-controllers. I also use logic, and it has great effects and is really cool for tracking out and mixing inside, but the workflow with setting up virtual instruments and chopping stuff is repelling to me.

I probably should point out that I used and still use almost exclusively samples and audio (no AU's).

I couldn't finish a song because I was distracted by all the possibilities and effects. Once I was satisfied with my sound, I couldn't even play my sampler instruments because of the CPU drain.

So I went and got a MPC1k (with JJOS2xl). And now I'm trying not to sound like a total fan boy, but it's sample editing and sequencer have really changed the way I work with my stuff..

It lets me simply sample some vinyl, or load up some hits via USB, lay them out on pads and just start making music.

Sure, the MPC 1k has pretty bad effects and is limited, but hey, it makes me focus on what's important; making music.

I'm not trashing DAW's or NI Maschine, I'm just saying that for ME, a hardware setup is and will always be more efficient.

The 404 looks really cool, but I'm yet to try one out. I think where many people do wrong when approaching a tool is to compare it to other stuff, and focus on what it can't do instead of what it does do.

So I say; go ahead and get that 404. You will notice almost immediately if it's for you. I know for sure that I lost a lot of sleep the first week with my MPC.

Good luck!

Thanks guys.

Yeah I'm going with the SP, managed to get my local store to price match the 404SX to the lowest web price I could find (just under £300), which is £200 less than an MPC.

I agree the MPC is clearly a hell of a machine, but it's more than what I need. I mean, sure, I'd probably make use of all the extra functionality but I can't justify dropping another £200 on it. Even the used ones here in the UK (newer model black ones, not the blue/red ones) go for like £400+.

The more I see people mashing up their sounds with SP's on YouTube, the more I want one!

I do have one more question though, and apologies if it's stupid;

Let's say you've made some like 4 bar beats and resampled them back to one pad, or even put like a whole track onto a pad for live use, when you're playing them back and switch to the next pad, will it cut the next pad in on-beat (like at the start of the next bar) or do you have to drop the next beat in time manually?

If it does drop in on-beat, how does it distinguish between that and when you want to play samples instantly if you were actually making a beat?

Hope I explained that well enough

Let say you finishied your song, chopped it up in different section, you kept the same level between the sample, you have them all in loop mode (witch is like a on/off trigger).

Pad 1 ON
Pad 2 OFF

---> PRESS BOTH AT THE SAME TIME

Pad 1 OFF
Pad 2 ON

If you go like that, and you're on time, it should be ALLLLLLL fine. I do it all the time.

Or even say you have a 16 bar beat, you could retrigger it after 8 bar (NO GATE/ NO LOOP mode on) on beat and it will sound pretty seamless.

Glad your going with the SP. If you were spending a little more I'd suggest an MPC1000 w JJOS.
I lucked into a 2500 and an SP both for pretty cheap around the same time. I learned the MPC inside and out while the 404 collected dust in my closet. But after reading about all the cool workarounds here, I started to fall in love with the SP. Now it's my main tool. My only gripes are that the sequencer is super-tedious (but who needs it) and the pitch function is not turntable style.

by 4-bar beats if you mean programmed sequences, you can only play one sequence at a time, no overlapping, and it will wait until the end of the sequence to start the next one. So unfortunately you can't jump in/out and land it in the same bar. but you can hold [SUB PAD] and hit a different sequence and it will jump to the beginning of that one. so if you need to get all ninja and program a whole bunch of sequences that are bits and pieces you can jump around that way... actually that might be cool, but it'll take forever to program.

If you mean that each of your 4-bar beats are resampled onto pads in sample-mode AS samples, then there are ways to do what i think you mean. you can keep resampling on forever, then just chop up into sections and assign to different pads as you go... and as IIIII said, you can record your performance without worrying about the stupid sequencer by setting bpm to 40, bars to 99 and turning off metronome...


here are, imo, the two most valuable tricks for the 404.

ghetto mute group: discovered by Flop (edit: Rabot's trick mentioned above is the way to do this without having DELETE lit)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9924&hilit=delete+mode

multi-mark-chopping: discovered by Wax Inspektor
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6941&hilit=mark+mystery

Thanks guys.

Yeah I explained my question terribly. I'll try again;

So let's say I've made a track, by whatever means and I've got it in my DAW, and I'll make some 'blocks' (I use Logic but I guess you could say clips like in Live, or Blocks as in Reason)... so I'll have a 4 bar block with bass/drums/keys, then a block with just drums/bass, one with just drums etc. Then I drop each of these 'blocks' (loops that last 4 bars) to their own pad on the 404.

Then I play one of the pads in a looping mode on the 404, and then I want to switch to the next pad, do I have to press it to drop it in right on beat, or can I press it toward the end of a measure and have the SP drop it in on beat itself?

Still a terrible explanation...

you need to press it if it's in loop mode. if it simply end there then you don't have to press it.

Still not getting it, sorry guys I feel dumb.

So say I have pad 1 playing a repeating loop, and I want pad 2 to kick in on the next bar, do I have to hit '2' right on the first beat of the bar, or can I press it and 'cue it up' toward the end of the bar on pad 1 and have it switch over on the first beat of the new bar.