sound design for sample based artists

[LesPasta]

ok I make sample based music, hiphop in the tradition of premier, pete rock, love Dilla... you get the point

After reading a few recent threads in this forum I've been inspired to make my sound stand out more.. I have a numark pt01, SP-404, SP-505, and SP-202 and a few thousand records... my samples are imported into my mac and I make beats with Reason..

I'm just looking for techniques for making my samples sound better before i get to the chop/loop/production stage...

I've been doing this for a while so I do understand about filter, eq, etc I'm just fishing for some more advanced applications of the methods

[admbmb]

I find its best to think of samples as big rocks and to chisel out the best parts of them (discard the rest). If you start with a crappy rock, you can't chisel your way into a good rock. Use good samples and really listen for what qualities they have that you like. When sampling a record, I try to capture it dry and full, and do any effects and chiseling when I have a context of how it will sound in the overall mix. You want to keep all the frequencies available until the last minute just in case you need em.

SP's are kind of a different animal since there a lot of "happy little accidents". I still try to preview samples together to see how they work before resampling together.

Its also good to have a strategy about how you want things to sound like in the end. Do you want a warm sound? Do you want punchy drums? Imagine those qualities first and then use punchy and warm sounds to piece it together and approach what you are envisioning.

[LesPasta]

thanks for the response

I'm looking for more specialized info though.. I have experience making beats and mixing I just want to have more control over achieving my sound and I think that my particular area of weakness would be when I'm pulling samples.. since all of my gear is virtual at this point--except my turntable and sp samplers I think that I should focus on getting my samples to sound better before I go into production

some questions I have :

after recording a break into my sp404 what would be a good way to make it more gritty sounding ?

What are some effective methods for creating punchy, ready-to-use drum hits ?

also, i know that some artist will put a specific kind of effect on all of their samples before they use them. They do this to create a feeling for one particular project. There must be some fundamentals to this process... or examples of how some artists achieve certain sounds (think about the sound of a sample with heavy reverb, when you speed up the sample the reverb is also effected-very 80's)


The 404 sounds very clean and sometimes I will sample directly into Reason so I will send the signal to a scream before it is recorded to get more grit but it still doesn't sound as thick as if I was working with vintage gear...

ideally I would buy an sp1200 and use that for sampling instead of a 404 but i dont have that kind of money...

maybe another piece of gear ? an engineer told me to run my turntable through a tube preamp but i dont know if that is a good idea since my turntable already has a built-in phono pre.... anyone have an opinion on that ?

[thetownie]

Resample, resample, resample

If your going for grit..sample into your SP and dirty it with your vinyl sim, and filters..

[Mr. Davenport]

DUDE!!! You have a 202!!! If you want your samples to sound sizzled utilize that little beast. Sample in lofi at 45 from the turntable then pitch it down on the 202, then record them into Reason.

[ghost ghost ghost]

Good sounding preamps can be very expensive if you're looking for a coloured sound.

In all honesty, yeah, it sounds like you want an SP1200, if you really can't afford one I would recommend getting hold of an s950, it sounds different to the SP1200 but from what you described I think you would be happy with one. I used to use one for my drums because it has that dope filter which makes it worth the price alone. If you look hard enough you can still find them cheap and in great condition.

Or....you could just experiment with the effects in Reason and you SPs. The 202 can really make things punchy, and combined with the effects on the 404 you really don't need to spend any more money and you definitely don't need to drop 1000+ on an SP1200.

[LesPasta]

ok I'm going to set up shop with my 202 and 404 and maybe i should run through my portastudio first for eq ?

what would you guys suggest for settings when recording with 202 ? lofi 1, 2 or another setting ?

I'm thinking about going from 202 to 404 and import from the memory card to my computer.. any other chain variations you can think of ? again I have 202,404,505 along with a 4-track portastudio and my 4 ins/outs to my computer..

[Mr. Davenport]

I would record at the highest pitch on the turntable into the 202, lower the pitch of the sample on the 202, record samples to the cassette, then into reason. That should give you a sound close to what you are looking for.

[ghost ghost ghost]

Yeah recording onto cassette tape can be dope, I think that first clouddead record was recorded on a Tascam, some of the sounds on there have a really nice quality to them. Just watch the bass especially if you're using cheap consumer grade tapes. Experiment with different types of cassette and speeds

In the past I've recorded short sequences of individual parts from MPC to tape to achieve a certain sound, then sampled each part back to the MPC pads and just improvise live on the pads with the recorder running. Basically like a hardware Ableton but with more of a human feel thanks to the lack of a sequencer.

EQ on some multitracks can be really poor, depending on what machine you have you might be better off using a software EQ. There are some good hardware EQs that can be had for cheap too. I run my turntable and VCR through a DBX 31 band, it's basic but really good for making the minor adjustments I need to. Having said that most people I've spoken to just go direct from turntable to sampler, it is something you can live without. From what I've seen a lot people on this forum can make fire with just an SP and a cheap turntable.

[mr16levels]

thanks for the response

I'm looking for more specialized info though.. I have experience making beats and mixing I just want to have more control over achieving my sound and I think that my particular area of weakness would be when I'm pulling samples.. since all of my gear is virtual at this point--except my turntable and sp samplers I think that I should focus on getting my samples to sound better before I go into production

I'm not trying to shoot you down but there really isn't any specialized knowledge. If you really understand how to use filters/EQs then that and a good source is all you need. Reason is a bad ass program especially if you understand how to use it.

after recording a break into my sp404 what would be a good way to make it more gritty sounding ?

What are some effective methods for creating punchy, ready-to-use drum hits ?

Can't help you with the 404 questions as I'm not a user of that unit. I use the following
Sp 303
Sp 505
Mpc 1000
Mpc 3000
Reason 5
Maschine

Now the way i've been getting gritty sounds is sampling from a GREAT source. I feel the most important part of your sampling chaining is your Needle and Preamp. Well I use a preamp (tube preamp).... To process my sounds through.

What I would do is layer up my drum kits to create thick punchy drums. Understand attacks and how they affect sounds is crucial. Also having a good unit to process sounds through can add punch. The punch can be good or bad depending on 2 things

1. The sound source
2. The processing unit and how to sounds on the source

also, i know that some artist will put a specific kind of effect on all of their samples before they use them. They do this to create a feeling for one particular project. There must be some fundamentals to this process... or examples of how some artists achieve certain sounds (think about the sound of a sample with heavy reverb, when you speed up the sample the reverb is also effected-very 80's)

Sometimes there is sometimes there isn't a fundamental process most of the time and especially with urban producers its all about trial and error. Some people are lucky enough to understand the mechanics behind things others just know how to get the end result.... For an example I know how to give movement to samples (pumping movement) with just EQ. Most people use Compression for this and not eq. I know the exact settings (for my setup) to get my drums and mixes like Dilla as well as people any trendy club track out there but that's because I've worked with my setup so long. I've had the same levels and settings setup on my computer, Mixer, Mpc etc for years. Now if you were to come in my studio and alter my configuration I'd have to relearn and adapt to that new configuration. So what works with my Preamp and Mpc 3000 isn't going to sound the same with someone with the same tools unless they were using my same settings. I hope that makes sense. It's all about your chain.[/quote]

The 404 sounds very clean and sometimes I will sample directly into Reason so I will send the signal to a scream before it is recorded to get more grit but it still doesn't sound as thick as if I was working with vintage gear...

ideally I would buy an sp1200 and use that for sampling instead of a 404 but i dont have that kind of money...

maybe another piece of gear ? an engineer told me to run my turntable through a tube preamp but i dont know if that is a good idea since my turntable already has a built-in phono pre.... anyone have an opinion on that ?

lol I should have read your entire post...Again not trying to shoot you down but if an engineer is giving you tips on something do it!.. That's like getting advice from a doctor and then saying well.. I dunno my nurse said....It won't matter than you use a Phono preamp or not.

I use a BBE phono and a Joe Meek Tube pre...There are more expensive preamps out there but I love the sound coming off the Meeks.

If you can get one off ebay they are worth it and again not very expensive

[LesPasta]

thanks for the advice people

most of my knowledge is from trial and error and I do have substantial amount of experience making beats, I jumped from hardware to software about 8 years ago and I have never been able to get the kind of sound that I would achieve with my hardware set-up... Reason is really all I need but I want my samples to be more dirty and the scream distortion isn't doing the trick, but maybe the new Pulverizer distortion device will be more satisfactory...


I am going to set-up my sp202 and sp303 with my turntable as a sampling rig so I will try to keep you guys up on the progress

[ediBranchez]

@mr16levels


When you run your turn-table through a pre-amp, Do you eliminate a mixer? I have a focusrite trackmaster pro Pre amp ...And i was wondering if i run my samples through this , how and why would samples be better?

thanks