Secret break chopping tech

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cartesia
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Secret break chopping tech

Post by cartesia »

Hey guys.. so I have never been happy with my chopped breaks.. I dont know why, its the strangest thing... The theory of chopping breaks (and methodology) is dead simple, but it really is an art.

for some reason it always comes out very jittery and unfunky to me once I've cut things up.. even if i run it at the original bpm or faster... (ie the tails last long enough to reach the next hit)

I've tried cutting into 2-3 hit bits, single bits, single bits with fadeout reversing on the end (to give a bit more tail), timestretching before cutting, timestretching after cutting, adding reverb.. I've tried using envelopes to give them smoother ends rather than abrupt cutoffs... The best luck I've had is with start-point modulation (triggering will play from the variable startpoint through till the very end of the break unless you retrigger first, which is how you get to different soudns..) So I think my problem with breaks is in the 'continuation' of rhythm through to the tail-end, rather than with the basic boombap. . I dunno.. its a very weird problem, I have a lot of issues even explaining what I mean.


Sometimes it works, most of the time I get frustrated... I guess perhaps I am just bad at choosing the right break? thats a whole artform in itself!

Anyhow,
dont focus on my problem particularly, I just thought it'd be cool to gather everyone's secret/magic break chopping techniques
:wink:

One thing I need to experiment with is recording 'silence' (hiss/crackle) off the record the break comes from - This will help to fill the spots where there is a gap I think which will go a long way to smoothing things out
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blavatsky
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by blavatsky »

I went to link you to a Vintage synth post...and lo and behold, it was cartesia who posted it 8)

For those interested: http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewt ... chop+drums


I think its a mix of adding a little tail/reverb/tape echo to taste, or crackle like you said...even if its a snare hit with the crackle/pop from vinyl AFTER the hit to give it space .

Some breaks are just not not great due to the "tightness", like when the high hats are so brief that unless your tempo is almost exactly the same, it sounds all choppy and mechanical.

Depending on what gear you are using, pitching it may help too - on the korg microsampler for example, you can gate-record your drum loop (hold a key for each chop) then pitch to taste which effectively shortens/lengthens.
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springwater
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by springwater »

i used to do this in fruityloops. Chop it into hits in the slicer then have it "play to end" so that there were no gaps, then id adjust the tempo till it was nice and tight. The MV allows you to chop a break and then go back and re-adjust the endpoints after you chop. So i might try this again on the MV.
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Slumlord88
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by Slumlord88 »

I find it helpful to use vinyl instead of mp3s....
In the MPC I would just lower the pitch on the tt and record a loop then chop to 16 pads ...then if ur bpm is faster u can play the chops faster and it would sound good.

In the Sp I just try to match the bpm..as long as it's close and u double time it in phrase it adjusts the tempo together...then If u wanna chop, then just copy break to another pad and adjust start/end points ...repeat and repeat..

Especially if u can get 45s...even better... I found a sum badass breaks that wer to fast for me on a 45...dropped it to 33 and it worked out..has a wierd deep tone to it like the kicks sounded close to sum 808s... Can't guarantee this trick but it can def work ...and they can't tell wer the breaks from!
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groktopus
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by groktopus »

45 to 33 drum break sounds fun. Gotta dig through the .15 cent 45 box this week xD
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fauna
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by fauna »

solid ^^ idea w/ the 45s.

on the 505, fuck it, i just auto chop and then adjust and tweak. i like this cuz it finds things i wouldn't have (like the chops aren't the same ones I'd find, but it works).

on the 404, i usually chop 'em by ear, but i usually add fx (reverb or delay, mostly) to get more tail.

i also find that i hit mark, then adjust the start point REALLY close. on a one-shot hit (can't remember if that's gate or trigger :oops: ) i find that really helps the drums sound natural.

EDIT: please, no jokes about how my fx get me more tail. thanks!
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groktopus
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by groktopus »

fauna's secret tail-getting technique :lol:
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springwater
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by springwater »

Man i need whatever FX your using. Might save some money then:)
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cartesia
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by cartesia »

blavatsky wrote:I went to link you to a Vintage synth post...and lo and behold, it was cartesia who posted it 8)


Heh :lol:

When VSE fails, I come to the real pros here at SP-Forums!

I think the key is definitely in the tail-getting ;)

I might try that 45->33 business.. I have tonnes of 45s
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djmellow
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by djmellow »

yeaahhh fauna knows what's up with 505 scheming :D
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LimpyLoo
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by LimpyLoo »

I think some audio would help this discussion. In fact, this thread might be a good excuse for a workshop. I wouldn't mind stealing licks from y'all. :D
P.S. I can't tell if cartesia is talking about cutting breaks up into single hits ("kick", "snare", etc.), or using longer phrases from the break ("kick kick snare", etc.). Can someone set me straight, here?
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cartesia
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by cartesia »

Well, I'm kinda thinking about both techniques actually..

It seems people have better sounds when they include extra hits, but not necessarily play it all the way through..

eg say there is kick-hat-snare

if you put it in gate mode then you can hold it down to the end of 'kick' or the end of the hat (makes sense) or through to the snare..

I'm starting to think that using bigger chunks like this actually leads to better results due to less 'empty' space - but it doesnt mean you have to play the break in order all the time, because you can still retrigger/let go early/etc
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tape smoke
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by tape smoke »

yo i got some cool ideas from this thread and decided to chop my crate kings tape with fruty slicex, it automaticly chopped the 10 minutes break tape into individual hits, it was easy in a few clicks, the samples need to be boosted,

here is the pack, it is in 16 bit wav, ready to be loaded into the sp

http://unsatisfiedpoets.org/audio/sampl ... ormalized/

and here is a sample of how they sound, i used laptop speakers and then listened on headphones and it sounded way different than I expected but whatever,

http://www.unsatisfiedpoets.org/sp/newa ... eakers.mp3

cool thread!
Last edited by tape smoke on Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tape smoke
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by tape smoke »

yo here is the zip there is 3000 plus drums

http://unsatisfiedpoets.org/audio/sampl ... 20tape.zip
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tape smoke
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Re: Secret break chopping tech

Post by tape smoke »

yo here is my sp 12000 drum tape, it has been bounced to tape and then re chopped , it is nice , 800 drum samples. i figure these 2 zips should save people a half a life time at least trying to find the dopest drum collections

http://unsatisfiedpoets.org/audio/sampl ... pdwave.zip
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