404sx no fun to loop..

[edorc]

sorry for this pathetic header. i dont understand why roland makes it so hard, nearly impossible to create loops (no live looping!) from complex sounds.

1.) i cant get rid of the clicks at the loop points. NO FADE, NO 0 POINT AUTOMATISM..

2.) we have to listen to the loop from beginning to end to find the loop points....over+over+over+over again.

in the digital age its really a shame to offer such a uncomplete, hard to use unit (in that manner).
20 years ago, when i did analog cutting on 2track tapes it was easier!!

its money, just the stragety to sell different units for one purpose.
+ on my 202 its much more fun to loop on the fly...makes me sad..

[Fradfresco]

I've been having the same problem, but i mean, There are plenty of DJS that use this live...
What do they do?

[edorc]

i think they work with different kinds of sound material.
ofcourse some hiphop beat, drum beats in general, vocal loops, fx...offer their gaps, rhytmically, + the density of the material isnt so high. so its not so hard to find or hit the working spots.
compact + dense audio needs small amounts of fades or a possibility for finding the zero points of the amplitudes.

+ ofcourse you can edit the files on the pc...but then i dont need the mark functions on the sp!

maybe the 202 has less this problem because of its lower resolution..dont know..
i just know that its rediculous in these times to leave you with impossybilities like that...i will not buy a 555!

[kel]

2.) we have to listen to the loop from beginning to end to find the loop points....over+over+over+over again.

i put the sample in reverse to find end points faster... especially when working with drum loops it cuts the 'listening over and over' time out almost completely.

as for zero points........ yeah. if my old casio sampling keyboard from when i was 5 has crossfade looping why not the 404??

[springwater]

One thing roland taught me is to do research before buying any musical equipment. Not even just reading the product info because its always "for shit". Gotta watch the videos, ask around, all that. The "no fade" thing gets me too. especially when you compress something with alot of attack and sustain, then everything clips at the end. Mpc have an attack and decay setting which is pretty cool. Only thing you could do is resample and fade it manually, which is a pain in the ass. Or do like 30 other steps to get the same result. Gotta know what your getting before you get it. I didnt know that the sp 808 didnt have a sequencer before i bought it. Just assumed. Then its like "BAAM" no sequencing. Tho i love the machine more than any other machine ive messed with, that was a slap in the face like, "hold up, a sampler with no sequencing". Everything else is dope but that one thing. Roland is the "ONE THING KING" keeping that one thing out so you need something else to get the results your looking for. Makes you interested in buying their other boxes. Heard some guy in the forums saying that he had a 505 but the 606 can add 2 effects to a sample. So he thought he should get the 606. And the pads were pressure sensitive (like 2 levels of sensitivity but thats neither there nor anywhere). Thats the rat race and we're all rats trying to make a beat and twist cheese blunts and spend our hard earned money on newer models that dont stand up to the older ones.
RANT COMPLETE!

[edorc]

wow, thats nice not feeling so allone..!

yeah, the "one thing theory" sounds funny + true! + very logic in these times.. but thinking of smaller companies like jomox + all the others, i see more the quality aspekt in their products, more that they try to deliver out of a passion for what they are doing, + for the musicians working with their products.
i also have 10 years old units here: the yamaha su 700: no problem with clicks, finds zero points somehow.
the rs 7000: fades..
i wouldnt argue about less fx, or sequencer or not, i mean, that i would look befor buying..
but to offer a functionality without its practical usability in mind...thats really poor.

the reverse trick i have to try...

[IIIII]

i don't have much trouble making loops, but since the sx comes with the wave import utility you can chop on pc and import pretty easily

[edorc]

so, i found a way, i hate this word, but its a workarround: the loop with the clicks has to be resampled (what a new term here on the sp forum..) WITH A SMALL AMOUNT OF EMPTYNESS IN THE END. loop this new sample + adjust the end point with "start/end/level" button. so now you can find the point between silence + endpoint of the sample where the amplitude is on zero, WITHOUT CLICKS!
the sample will be a small amount longer then the original, but shortening it on the beginning for the same amount will work too (-attacks ofcourse..).

feel like caveman enventing tools for making fire..

[Fradfresco]

wow that actually helped me a lot. thanks

[groktopus]

I'm with you on this but also feel its not TOO too hard to work with the shitty looping system. I use the same resample method as you, and sometimes I'll just let it loop twice and end it the same way for 8 bars to work with. Haven't tried the reverse trick, thx for that kel.

[edorc]

a new idea: when you want to loop a recorded sample (like from ext source or via resample) set the start marker on the beginning of the sample you ant to loop (hold mark + press the pad), then press "time/bpm", adjust the bpm to the value of the original sample, then hit mark for the end point shortly befor the end of the loop...now something good seems to happen: no clicks in the loop...
i tried this with samples comimg from my 202, they have a certain lenght + bpm. using that value for the tempo adjustement on the 404 for the endpoint marker, it seems to work!
dont know if its the setting of the "right" bpm measure (the one according to the original sample) OR if the sx does a smoother something when letting it find the end marker for it self (with the help of any given bpm value).

also: what happens with a live recording without the knowledge of its bpm...?

its magic...

[Gary_Rock]

I feel your pain...
http://sp-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10542

[edorc]

so i take my offer for the 555 back on ebay...

at least: this toy is really fun + it reminds me on the times of oldschool producing. its really a deeper aproach to my sounds when working 1 hour on a loop, listening, trying, changing, trying, listening... its salutary..

[Gary_Rock]

I just don't want to use a PC (use one all day so the last thing I want to do when I get home for fun) but if I had gone that route I would be so far down the line of making music that I would be face down in my own swimming pool with vomit beer cans floating around me and by now.

[Gary_Rock]

To fix this loop issue on the 555 I have found this extra step in the manual..

Press 'Start-End' button for an end sampling on beat to the global BPM, whilst in sample standby (this is when you first press sample and before you press it again ).

..No more unwanted loop glitches for me

I hope it works for you 404 guys too?

Also press the BPM button in this mode to give a four bar count in.

Can't see why the 404 wouldn't have this too?