Any tips to produce techno/minimal sound on 404 ??

[marjan83]

Hello all

I'm new SP dude from Poland .

The question is about some "tips n trics" to produce 4/4 tempo music on SP-404 Maybe someone for us have some expirnce with this kind of music ??
I long observe this forum but i can't find any information about production tech .

I start to develop basic technic using EMX to triger the drum sound and others on 404 . Then i record that midi notes on 404 seqencer . Why ?? Because pcm percusion sound on EMX is not to much interesting

If someone have some aditional trics please add describe Your techniqe in this topic . Maybe it is some inspiration for other SP dude

Sorry for my english !!!

[cartesia]

Hey man, I do the same (but with ESX)

I recommend playing with effects and samples and using resample function to make weird loops/sounds on the 404.. Like apply one effect, resample, then apply another effect, etc.

[marjan83]

Hmm.. this is a good solution to create some background/ambient sound on 404 But i can't resample when midi trigger sound on 404 .Or mayby it is posible ??

Cartesia do you play live gig on this setup ??
How do You play using electribe ?? Play single patern around or mayby play patern to patern bulid a song (small sound changing is a new patern ) ??
How is Your way to using 404 in live setup ??

I want to use 404 like drum machine and add synth for EMX but it is posible in two diferent way .

1. using internal seqencer to bulith rythm , and play one shot sample like in electribe left hand part

2 . Play using 404 seqencer to play drum loop recorded on KP3 + some exra efect

What You recomend ??

[cartesia]

Hey no you can't resample while midi is playing unfortunately.. just gotta practice!
this isnt for doing 'live' btw.. just to make cool sounds to trigger later.

I kinda play live with it.. not at clubs or anything though Still learning.


I work like this:

ESX - Single pattern
M- Base - Kick drum - Triggered by drum "1" on ESX
SP-404 - some sounds triggered by midi from esx, some pressed by hand (played by hand + hand editing delay/reverb etc effect) . ( samples like words, atmospheric like "bangggggggggg" "whoooooooosh" "clunk clunk clunk clunk cllluuuuuafnsgnklhknkkk" etc)

Then it all goes to my mixer, which has more delay + reverb on effect sends so i can add live effects to different tracks (ESX is 2 mono + 1 stereo track, SP404 1 stereo, MBase 1 mono)

So for effects I have:
404 1x multi effect
ESX 3 multi effect
Mixer 1 reverb/phaser/distortion
Delay pedal
Reverb Pedal
Flanger pedal

It's mostly about muting/unmuting parts on ESX, and altering their filter. Pressing sounds on the 404 to add extra atmosphere, and using effects to make it trippy.


As for you, I think you should make the EMX drum parts trigger the 404 single shots, plus maybe make some 'atmosphere' samples or sounds that you play by hand pressing the 404 pads when you want them to play. (and playing with 404 effect on them)


Cool to see you have a KP3 , miss mine heaps! Want another (four others actually )

I think you should put the KP3 either after the 404 (to effect just the drum sounds) or after the master output (to effect everything)

If you put it on the master, what you can do is loop an entire song for 4 bars, then stop your emx/404, load the next song, and fade it in from the old song that is still looping on the KP4. also you can do really extreme loop/stutter/etc effects like DJ style

[Jim Y]

I think fx resampled isn't interesting enough, because the movement in the FX is static in the resample. For minimalist, static can become tiring to listen to.
I don't think the EMX pcm percussion is so bad, much of it classic techno and it's 3 FX engines can bring some unpredictable life especially if you play with them a bit while it runs. Varying the decay of percussion part envelopes can drastically alter the feel too.
I find the 404's biggest advantage here is for throwing in phrases, using the FX like DJ/BPM looper and manually triggered & tweaked - not midi sequenced.

I use EMX patterns, not songs - tweak like mad - record EVERYTHING live and then edit it down. OK, the editing can hurt, because I can jam on for 20mins or more and then have to decide what to cut. But I can't plan well enough to do it any other way and things happen I couldn't ever plan anyway.

Jim

[cartesia]

the resampling doesn't have to be static move stuff

[marjan83]

I have EMX more of one year and i use it every day Some times it sound's good but sometimes i need somthing fresh to improve creativity . Yesterday i find some nice long atmospheric sample and play it like backgound noise. Potential is very high im stil serch

Another solution :

404 like drum machine triger percusion kit using internal seqencer

1 step : create your dope percusion kit on 404 ( 12 bank )
2 step : using electribe to trigger this stuf
3 step : record this seqence in to 404 seqencer
5 step : syncronize gear
4 step : jam with this stuf , add some nice sound from EMX , ESX .

This is good for live performance i think , because you have a good rythm base and you can imrovise with sound taken form electribe .

What do You think ??

[jbl]

i record loops with desired bpm on and it works for keeping loops congruent..., esp. if they come from same machine. so from something else i make a sample (as loop) on the 404 (it doesn't work in resample btw). i can then sequence those loops. but this might cause drifting from the electribe, idk.

[Jim Y]

By static, I meant fixed in the new sample - no matter how much movement was done in the making of it - it's the same movement every time the new sample is heard. It's a matter of taste how much repetition there is in your sounds, but I want to put enough variation down so when I edit the track I can pick the ones that either got what I was aiming for or happily did something good I didn't expect. I can only decide this in the context of the recorded track - never on it's own, which resampling in the 404 first would entail. BTW, I'm not against repetition in music - a good hypnotic groove I can listen to for ages.
Any kind of music, I think a successful track is a mixture of the familiar and comfortable (the easy part) with the unexpected and novel (the hard part).
Simplifying it, I find something like the EMX does the easy part, and the 404 does the hard part.
I'm wondering if I should look at adding something like the KP for keeping an evolving atmosphere "bed" going under everything else?

Jim

[lodger]

techno tends to have a pretty mechanical feel to it, so quantize may be your friend there.

make copies of your pattern with the black lotus trick and modify them slightly to add variety to your tracks.

distortion and degrade will be helpful effects as well as flange and phase.

I like to use beat repeat for these sorts of tracks, resample and trigger that in gate mode to add some extended glitch fx.

[cartesia]

^ Problem with using quantize is there is no swing on the 404 and techno is almost always swingin..

I would recommend quantize on, but only for kicks.. off for snares/claps, off for hats.. maybe on for bassline depending on the feeling

[IIIII]

you can add some space to the front of the percussion samples to create some swing in the quantized pattern tho