SP-404 as a Live Instrument? Brainfeeder member says "YES"

keal · **Joined:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:29 pm **Posts:** 26

I saw Daedelus, Gaslamp Killer, Samiyam and Free the Robots last night at a show. I've notice a few guys from the Brainfeeder crew (Teebs, Samiyam, Ras G) use ONLY the 404 to do their entire sets and was always curious as to how they did it. I actually asked Samiyam and he told me that since the new 404 has so much memory and banks he just loads a bunch of songs on his 404 (one entire song per pad plus a bunch of one shots). But later I thought 'How does he match the BPM's of each song in order to mix them? But then again they don't really match their beats when DJing live do they?.

cartesia · **Posted:** Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:01 am

maybe he just renders them all at the same bpm for live shows, or maybe he renders them all at like 4 different bpms each ( but the same 4 for each track)

lodger · **Joined:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:00 pm **Posts:** 359

the rendering at same bpm sounds most likely to me. i wonder if he uses full songs...or maybe his beats don't change up much and he can just loop a moderate sized chunk. stereo full tracks would eat up space like crazy, no?

cartesia · **Posted:** Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:05 pm

Well 1 gig of uncompressed audio will give you ~100 minutes

so an SX with a 16 gig card will give you ~26 hours.

dishwater · **Joined:** Sat May 29, 2010 4:41 pm **Posts:** 262

i know that ras g doesn't only use a 404, he uses a laptop as well, and runs it through the 404. might differ per gig though.

keal · **Joined:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:29 pm **Posts:** 26

I thought that maybe they had the mix on a computer too and just fed it through the 404 for one-shots and effects but no, he and Teebs use the 404 for everything. The rendering of each song beforehand to me would be too much of a hassle no? But I did ask him about the memory and he told me: "I could do a three hour set if I wanted to (on the 404)" and that he asigns one song per pad (I told him i thought maybe he mixed three songs together and put them on one pad). He didn't play just his songs either. He dropped some Mobb Deep and other hip-hop songs but it's not like he played the whole song out so maybe he doesn't load up the entire song, he would have to cue it up to drop it exactly where he wants to right? Anyway, when you guys say "rendering" how do you do that, just on some software? Cuz doesn't the 404SX come with software to load samples? Does it do more than that?

formal · **Posted:** Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:50 pm

I actually just did the same exact thing on my OG 404. I manually imported WAVs of complete songs to each pad on the 404. I calculated the bpms of the songs before hand and wrote them all down on paper with the corresponding pad number/bank. Now I have about 40 tracks to mix and play with. I also have a few banks of 1 shots, drum loops and vocal clips for mixing. Personally, I don't care if my music 'mixes' and matches up perfectly. A good performer is gonna stop between tracks and have some crowd interaction anyway.

ellaguru · **Posted:** Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:41 pm

formal wrote:

A good performer is gonna stop between tracks and have some crowd interaction anyway.

anyway your tricks are very stimulating guys.
i have to do a show on jennuary and i think i will use a combination between sp606 and pc(ableton live) but seen that ableton crashes many times with the sp606 as soundcard, then i'll maybe use just the sp606 with another sampler (st224 or sp505). and i could use the Formal/symiam method to load/build trax because of the main facts that i got more "finished tracks" than just "beats"...

dishwater · **Joined:** Sat May 29, 2010 4:41 pm **Posts:** 262

yeah what do you guys mean about rendering to a certain bpm, the only way to set a bpm on a track is to resample with a set bpm, right? that'd be a shitty job to do, if the sp doesn't detect the right bpm while loading up a tune...

cartesia · **Posted:** Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:03 am

I mean in a software DAW.. u open up the project file, change the bpm, stretch anything that needs to be stretched, then render it out.

As far as I'm aware these guys dont produce their music using only the 404s, they just play it live that way.

formal · **Posted:** Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:41 am

Cartesia is right, I doubt the tracks were all made on the 404 and even if they were that doesn't mean they'll still have perfect BPMs. Since intros will throw off the BPM I will just TAP out my tempo once the real beat starts and use whatever I have around me that has a "tap BPM" function to see the tempo. That way I have a general estimation of the tempo. I group my songs by tempo ranges, not exact tempos. They are grouped in slow, medium and fast. That doesn't mean that I will only play slow songs with slow songs.... it's just to know what I'm working with. Each performance will be different depending on the crowd. If you have your tracks laid out before hand and list the tempo you can pick and chose as necessary.

V-F! · **Joined:** Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:37 am **Posts:** 1109

I would not want to play whole tracks off a pad, if you hit the worng pad or restart the song it could fuck you up pretty hard. You could render your whole 1 hour set and just play it off an ipod through the sp. I think my next gig I'm going to mix in sonorasaurus rex on my ipad and run it through the Sp. Use SP effects on the master out, might run my iphone with nanostudio into the mic in as well or something. Pretty flexible live rig and no bulky(and EXPENSIVE with girls spilling drinks and whatnot) laptop needed. Only thing that would hold me back is that I wouldn't have my multiband comp and limiter to make shit BUMP!

Dj_just_jeff · **Posted:** Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:16 am

I agree, The tracks were bpm matched, or at least bpm noted before loading them into the 404. It is super hard to keep things in sync when using live samples and playing them live. I did a little live loop smashing here,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P4PW0eD1jY

Now those samples are all edited in my 404. the drums will drift off eventually, everyone on the 303/404 has this problem.
I cant imagine playing live in front of a crowd, not being nervous and keeping perfect time. There sounds like some funny biz here. They must have used an external editor before loading the samples into the 404. I am curious to know exactly what is going on.

keal · **Joined:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:29 pm **Posts:** 26

I know, I thought about it so much after I talked to him but i didn't want to be THAT guy and keep going up to him like, "so, hey wait, how..?"

Unfolding · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:42 am **Posts:** 952

keal wrote:

I know, I thought about it so much after I talked to him but i didn't want to be THAT guy and keep going up to him like, "so, hey wait, how..?"/quote]
Wise.

I've seen vids of Samiyam & Ras G live & wondered how they did it- so thanks for asking him!

Bridge wrote:

if you hit the worng pad or restart the song it could fuck you up pretty hard. You could render your whole 1 hour set and just play it off an ipod through the sp.

Same wrong-button risk goes for playing free without sequencing patterns, although that Ipod idea is a great workaround. I'd be inclined to put a basic, skeletal version of the track onto the ipod first (textures & key parts of the rhythm etc) & then play out the rest of the song with the SP...

SP-404 as a Live Instrument? Brainfeeder member says "YES"

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