A trick for working without quantize on sp-404

[lodger]

I'm not sure if this is a given to many people, but i've stated to use this a lot more over the last few days.

i've tried working without quantize on my beats before and really wasn't satisfied with my results. I can get a good groove going, but the sequencer seems to snag things up...either I'll be playing slightly ahead or behind and the loop doesn't loop the best or hits that should be at the very beginning end up on the last part of the sequence. Either way, its ugly and unsatisfying.

The trick that I started doing was to play my 1 or 2 bars of drums while resampling the output. from here, I just set the bpm on the new sample to match the sequencer and it all sort of shifts together a bit better. From here, I'll overdub or add other stuff to add interest to the beat.

i'll still use the sequencer, but for me it in quanitized mode works more effectively. Does anyone else do it like this? has anyone else had an issue with it before?

[formal]

That's how a lot of us here rock our SPs. One thing you forgot to mention is that while resampling you only get a 4 note poly. So if you use 2 stereo samples it's maxed out and you will need to resample again with the new layer.

[lodger]

ah i've been doing mono for the most part, so i never even realized that. thanks for the info

[Dr Van Nostrand]

i've been enjoying using the sequencer without quantize on and kinda just making everything fit together, maybe start with a quantized pattern to lay some unquantized ground work, but go back and lay everything in so it sounds proper and run the track mute trick and other effects with the remain button, but the way you mentioned is an excellent way to get a drum pattern from single hits you can just lay in in small sections or full bar loops, thats what i think is obnoxious when sequencing, having to do tedious work on somethin like a hi hat or kick drum, or any sound that is played repetatively, gotta find ways to make the sp work for you!!

[Wonka]

I don't use a sequencer or quatization, just resample. Works for me but it can get very sloppy (which I like ).

[Les Braun]

what the fuck do you people have against the quantize button?

[Wonka]

what the fuck do you people have against the quantize button?

What do you have against people who do not use quantization?

[a.D.]

Maybe I'm just from a different school of beatmaking, but all this resampling drum patterns ,layering more resampled shit, track mute tricks,etc, seems like it would be more tedious than simply using the sequencer and pattern copy. As far as not using quantize on the sequencer--the machine shouldn't be doing anything to snag things up, unless it's malfunctioning. Any pad you hit should play in the sequence just as you hit it. I mainly use quantize on my drums for the most part,depending on how i want shit to sound-but I use empty air and various quantize settings to get shit swinging, then lay my chops and shit without quantize. Once you got that main sequence down,chorus, or whatever, pattern copy as many times as you need and make any changes you need,it's pretty simple. Maybe I don't completely get what ya'll are doing, but it seems like in trying to simplify the process you might be making it more complicated and creatively limiting.Then again, maybe I'm missing out on the resampling pattern thing work. still to me, after finding something dope to flip-the funnest part of making a beat is when you get that innitial drum pattern going and swinging for 8,12, 16,whatever bars with infinite possibilities of where you can go with it.

[formal]

@ a.D. - Sounds like you have a 404sx. A lot of SPs don't have pattern copy. We can do the flylo trick, but that's another work around you were trying to avoid.

Yes, making nonquantized/resampled beats is a different school of making beats. It's not like you gotta make beats this way.... I do a combination of both styles all depending on the samples I've found. For me THE SAMPLES, dictate how I approach the track. I don't try to force my samples into any one style of beat making. What works for some people doesn't work for others. On the ninja steez it's always best to know everything your machine can do cuz you'll never know when it'll come in handy.

Here comes the Wu-tang and Shaolin comparison again. Tiger & Crane must fight together!

[a.D.]

Naw,actually i have the original 404- but the pattern copy trick takes like 30 seconds, really not a big thing. And I've actually wanted to try the drum pattern resample thing,etc- I thought a good idea would be to have a break or something at the bpm you want playing on a turntable while you lay the shit down to help with timing maybe.. but I'm thinking to make a complete beat- where there's certain parts you wanna take out some snares,hats,kicks,or add them in places--plus just the normal change ups in a beat-intro,verse, hook, bridge,outro,chop & bass mutes,etc--it seems like you'd be resampling shit a million times--or maybe I'm just not getting part of the process.By the way, i wish I had the new 404- I'd love to see what my swing technique would sound like WITH the swing function turned on as well. I'm pretty sure a lot of mpc cats must be doing that - a lot of producers swing is sounding so ill nowadays--with quantize.

[formal]

well by having the 4 poly max you can only have so many sounds. This is an advantage or a disadvantage. You just build up parts of the tracks so they are on different pads. By doing this you can switch up parts of your song like you were talking about.

Just try to resample/nonquantized on one element of your track for now. Throw it back into the sequencer and do your usual creation method. It should add a new twist to things.

[a.D.]

I think I will try that on a drum pattern just to mess around, see what happens..But again, say if I'm making a standard beat with an 8 bar intro, 3 sixteens,3 8 bar hooks,etc.. you would actually have to program each one of those sequences individually in order to add/subtract certain elements of your drum pattern. I do this on almost every beat I make,(since most are for fully sructured songs with vocals)-by just using the delete pad in record mode,or throwing an extra snare hit,kick,hat,etc in record mode on the coppied pattern.That's why for the most part I hate using break beat loops, rather chop 'em. Guess it depends on what style of track your making, but it seems like a lot of unneccesarry work- no disrespect intended at all to anyone doing this- I mean I posted on this thread 'cause I wanted to learn more about it, and everybody's gotta develop their own style of doing things.But I still just don't really get the point, except possibly in a live performance.

[lodger]

I agree that building an entire track this way can be unnecessarily confusing if that's not what you're into. basically I use this idea when I already know what i want to create and the sequencer is killing my groove.

I suggest after you get the bpm right on your loop, resample the loop and chop it into whatever you need such as quarter notes and use that as an option for muting and altering beats.

[Dr Van Nostrand]

i like laying my drums in in chunks, so i don't have to quantize that cause its easier to lay in a few parts in time as opposed to some 16th swingin hi hat pattern that is hard as shit to lay in, quantized or not, note by note, its not like i make incredibly loose sounding music, you could accomplish the same thing with quantize i'm sure, i just hate when things are slightly off when using the quantize function, cause in my experience, when laying multiple samples and grooves into a pattern, the quantize doesn't always make sense to get a kick to land right where you need it in comparison to the sequencing grid, i guess thats why you do chops unquantized after the drums are laid down, i just like cutting up a break into bigger sections as well as one hits, or if it is only one hits, resampling myself playing a single bar of a hi hat pattern live and then taking a chunk of it and laying it in in 1 or 2 beat sections, i just hate spending so much time doing sequencing and making a million sequences just for certain drops and stuff, i find that within a few takes tops i can have shit all laid into the sequencer unquantized and landing right where want it to hit, instead of laying in a sound quantized, not liking it, laying it in again under 8.3, then 16.3, then trying to copy that one in another part and not being able to get it, i don't know, its just easier to trust your own timing and just lay things down where they need to go

[dishwater]

got a chance to try yesterday, this works very well, so thanks lodger!

i've found that it's pretty hard to put a short, swung groove into a pattern as single hits, i.e. to play it loosely and still have it loop properly... mainly because you tend to have some space left (played too fast for the bpm) or too little space (played too slow). Adjusting the bpm can't solve that, because it will also change the space between the notes. I've been thinking there should be a way to sort of set marks on a sequence, if that makes sense. But i guess this is the equivalent, you can set marks on a resampled beat and have it fill out a whole measure (or several)... and it sounds fine too.

should have known this before!