On guitars and sampling

[cccn]

I've recently bought a 2nd hand sp 404 and, whilst I'm really enjoying using it, I'm starting to become a bit concerned as to how useful it's going to be for my live stuff. The reason I bought the sampler in the first place was so I could record my own samples of drums, bass, guitar etc so I could trigger these things live, using it as a performance tool really. I'm heavily into guitar layering, and my stuff is loop based as it is, but here are my questions.

I've heard that it's possible to plug a guitar into the sp 404, now is this just from the mic in jack? is this actually possible?

Further to this, I'm currently going through a variety of guitar pedals and using a Vox AC 30 amp. Would there be any way to record my own samples directly from the amp, i.e getting the sound of the amp in the sample, and not just by going through the pedals?

Lastly, is it possible to plug the sampler into the AC30? I'm assuming that all I'd really need would be an rca to 1/4 jack converter?

Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[cauzwoah3E]

get quarter inch to rca cables. i go from my digi multi effects pedal into the audio in of my sp404sx

[fauna]

recording guitars in:
put a mic in front of the amp, record mic-in on the 404.
use an amp modeler (POD, VAMP), plug 1/4 inch out to RCA in on 404.
(or if you are REALLY careful) drop yr amp volume, use a speaker-out 1/4 inch to RCA in on the 404.

to play 404 out:
running into the amp CAN work if you have 2 inputs. I would recommend a small mixer tho, to get the balance between the guitar and the 404, as the inputs will probably not allow you to find that balance.
keep yr guitar thru yr amp, run yr 404 thru your / the house's PA system. this is what i do, and it worx great for me.

[cccn]

Cheers for that. I did some experimenting today with it, I ran my guitar through the effects and just plugged that into mic-in...didn't sound bad, even though I didn't have a cab modeller on. I think though I'll probably just try the recording with a mic, as I prefer the tone from the amp. What is the internal mic like, quality wise? Will it clip really badly if there's a lot of delay there do you reckon?

(Sorry for asking these questions when I could just try the things I'm asking, but the walls in my flat are really thin and we've had complaints about noise after 12 midnight)

Also, slightly unrelated, but is there anyway to record straight from vinyl, my record player doesn't have a preamp so I was thinking maybe if I went through the amp?

[dman5000]

if you like it dirty and you just plug the guitar first into the 404, turn the mic gain up until it clips, then add effects and stuff

[fauna]

the internal mic on the 404 has its own sound. i use it w/ acoustic guitar, some voice, and tambourine / shakers, etc. i don't use it w/ electric guitar just cuz i don't like that 'bee in a bottle' sound. for other stuff, it can tone things in a really interesting way.

but certainly, play with it. you may also find that one of yr effects boxes will work as a suitable pre-amp btwn the guitar and 404. otherwise, a modeler is easiest when trying to satisfy neighbours who (very reasonably, i may add) ask you to not rock an amp after midnight.

on the turntable to 404 tip, it depends on what you have. if yr using a portable turntable (PT-01, etc) they usually have built in pre-amps, and you can just run the RCAs into the 404. if you have a 'normal' turntable, yeah, you'll need a pre-amp and you'll probably need to ground the turntable.

good luck.

[Jim Y]

The internal mic can work quite well if the unit is placed on a large hard surface such as the floor. This will really improve the bass response - it's the same deal as a boundary mic really. The only problem is in picking up rumble off the floor, so you need something softish in between like a mouse mat or two. The 404 mic is an omni type, so it doesn't really have to point at the source, but does need to be fairly close to it. The problem of a boxy/thin mic'ed sound can happen with any mic especially in a small room - surrounding the mic and source with something sound absorbing like duvets, mattresses and pillows will clean up the recording a lot.

Having said all that, even pro studio's seem to prefer using a dynamic stage mic pointing close to the speaker for guitar recording and with one of these, the 404 mic jack is probably good enough.

Jim

[fauna]

good post Jim. always good to have you chime in on stuffs

i agree with everything you've said, but i also really like the sound of the 404's internal, for specific effect.

i find the mids really scooped out, and i try to play that to advantage....something like sparklehorse / mark linkous stuff maybe?

i don't try to make it more than it is, but i love what it is. if that makes sense.

[Jim Y]

Yes, there is creative use of microphones for free processing.

I've heard of, but not tried...
Swinging the mic around for a phasey rotary speaker effect
Putting it in tubs, cans etc.
Right in a corner.
Muffling with tissue, cloth etc.
Putting it in a condom and immersing in a bucket of water.

Now to find a condom that fits a 404...

Jim

[Dumbroot]

Yes, there is creative use of microphones for free processing.

I've heard of, but not tried...
Swinging the mic around for a phasey rotary speaker effect
Putting it in tubs, cans etc.
Right in a corner.
Muffling with tissue, cloth etc.
Putting it in a condom and immersing in a bucket of water.

Now to find a condom that fits a 404...

Jim

Don't Roland make one?

[Jim Y]

No they don't, but I understand it's been a feature request to Roland.
Last NAMM a Roland rep claimed that although they do support safe sampling, there just wasn't enough call for it. If anyone really must, generic ones supplied to UK stores (stamped "medium") are a snug fit. The 404 is of course already "ribbed".

Jim

[Champion Unicorn]

I've made a few samples from my guitar and vox amp. The signal flow that i used is as follows. Guitar to pedals. Pedals to amp input. Amp headphones out to sp mic in. Then Sp headphone out to hear. Works well and really simple all you need is enough 1/4 inch cables.

[kristoffer1989]

this is what i always do: guitar to pedals, pedals to mic input. headphones to amp. works very good. you can just use normal jacks and use it like a pedal =)