Mixing question

[Kei Kurono]

How loud should you mix your stuff ?

and

How loud should the final mix be ?

[MEGA MANE]

Use your favorite songs as a reference Mane. You will not be able to get as loud as them without use of a limiter Mane.

[Kei Kurono]

Ok so when you mix how loud should your track be playing while you mix ?

[polyphonics]

Use your favorite songs as a reference Mane. You will not be able to get as loud as them without use of a limiter Mane.

Well this isnt really going to help you. Because listening to your favorite song as a reference is going to confuse the mixing and mastering stages.

Worry about balance across your sounds/instruments during the mixing phase

and worry about overall loudness at the mastering phase.

[Ill Green]

Even though I'm going to school for recording arts, I just have to say that mixing is an art form that has no right or wrongs. All this educated knowledge that are in these schools today, were forged from legendary engineers and producers experimenting with mics and tapes and then created unusual and extraordinary sounds that worked on wax. And by their experiments we learn from that. But those guys didn't really know what they were doing back then, in fact they had no teacher themselves to teach them about recording. It was all done by practicing and gaining experience.

Having said that, I'll just tell you to listen with your ears. When mixing, try to keep a decent listening level and don't try to tire your ears by playing loud. At loud levels you might think something is coming out dope, but when your ears have rested and you return to it, you'll definitely hear its flaws. Keep those ears fresh and play it loud when its a finished piece of work. In mixes, try to keep every thing balanced, from the lows to the highs. I can't explain that too good, but I'll leave you with this. Think of the EQ and think of every parameter as seperate tracks of a Drum Loop. Low setting would be the Kick, Mid setting would be the Snare and High setting would be the Hi Hats. So listen to the instrument and figure out what catergory it belongs to, like Bass would be fitted to work on the lows, guitar would be fitted to work on the mids, and cymbal and chimes would be fitted to work on the highs etc.

I don't know what I wrote but it sounded good when I typed it. Just be you and follow your ears.

[Kei Kurono]

Use your favorite songs as a reference Mane. You will not be able to get as loud as them without use of a limiter Mane.

Well this isnt really going to help you. Because listening to your favorite song as a reference is going to confuse the mixing and mastering stages.

Worry about balance across your sounds/instruments during the mixing phase

and worry about overall loudness at the mastering phase.

lol yea i figured that wouldnt helped i just replied to get more people to get in on this.

[Kei Kurono]

Even though I'm going to school for recording arts, I just have to say that mixing is an art form that has no right or wrongs. All this educated knowledge that are in these schools today, were forged from legendary engineers and producers experimenting with mics and tapes and then created unusual and extraordinary sounds that worked on wax. And by their experiments we learn from that. But those guys didn't really know what they were doing back then, in fact they had no teacher themselves to teach them about recording. It was all done by practicing and gaining experience.

Having said that, I'll just tell you to listen with your ears. When mixing, try to keep a decent listening level and don't try to tire your ears by playing loud. At loud levels you might think something is coming out dope, but when your ears have rested and you return to it, you'll definitely hear its flaws. Keep those ears fresh and play it loud when its a finished piece of work. In mixes, try to keep every thing balanced, from the lows to the highs. I can't explain that too good, but I'll leave you with this. Think of the EQ and think of every parameter as seperate tracks of a Drum Loop. Low setting would be the Kick, Mid setting would be the Snare and High setting would be the Hi Hats. So listen to the instrument and figure out what catergory it belongs to, like Bass would be fitted to work on the lows, guitar would be fitted to work on the mids, and cymbal and chimes would be fitted to work on the highs etc.

I don't know what I wrote but it sounded good when I typed it. Just be you and follow your ears.

Thanks for the help man. Im good at mixing im also studing audio but when you mix on the 303 its kind of a pain in the ass cause i get distortion problems with kicks and bass sometimes when I try to bring the track level up. i still have a lot to learn tho. Plus i dont have monitors

[MEGA MANE]

Ok so when you mix how loud should your track be playing while you mix ?

Unity gain MANE. Sometimes there is one notch on a knob that is longer or thicker than all the others. That is unity gain. It's usually around 7 or 8 if a full rotation of your knob is 10 Mane.

[MEGA MANE]

Ok so when you mix how loud should your track be playing while you mix ?

Unity gain MANE. Sometimes there is one notch on a knob that is longer or thicker than all the others. That is unity gain. It's usually around 7 or 8 if a full rotation of your knob is 10 Mane.

On a side note if your ears start to hurt take a break and come back later Mane. Ear fatigue can be a killer. You'll be like "Yo, where is all the high end", then you'll come back the next day and be like "Oh there it is and it sounds like shit I better turn that down".

[polyphonics]

How loud should you mix your stuff ?

I am not an expert, Im just repeating what I've heard- but 85db c-weighted (average not peak) using pink noise measured at the mixing point is thrown around a lot based on a film industry standard. Now we aren't talking about headphones!!! . I think this is too loud, because 85db is loud enough to cause hearing loss over extended period of exposure. See (http://www.asha.org/public/hearing/disorders/noise.htm). This might very well be a case where what is best for mixing is not best for your ears. Use that information as you will.

You would need a sound meter to measure it and you could measure either from source or mixing position or both. (Loudness will decrease by approx. 6 db for every doubling of distance (inverse square law). So for ease of explanation lets say that you correctly measured your output .5 feet (or meters, doesnt matter) from the source (one speaker) at 85 dB - and you monitor 4 feet from the measured point - all else being equal, you would be monitoring at 67 dB. (.5 ft = 85 dB; 1 ft = 79; 2 ft = 73 dB; 4 ft = 67 dB). )

As others have said, you want to listen to your mix at different levels to see what they sound like- this is because, given the way the auditory system works, loudness is not constant across frequency. This means that different frequencies (and therefore different instruments or sounds) will be represented differently in the mix at different levels. An analogy that might work is that at different loudness levels we use different EQ contours.

But whatever monitoring level you chose, stick to it so that you become familiar with it.. listen to other music at that same reference level so that you become familar with how things sound.. this experience will then translate when you mix. You can then monitor at other levels, but you are doing so against your standard reference level always.

This is a good series to read: http://tinyurl.com/y6fnatb

How loud should the final mix be ?

There is no real answer. The final mix (which I take you to mean, the mastering stage) depends on the listener. Are they listening on headphones? speakers? at 70db? 90db? Each of these would ideally require a different answer. So you start with how you think it will usually be listened to and then make compromises.

[Ill Green]

Holy Dipstick! At 80dB would make his ears bleed!!!

Standard mixing would be -4dB to 0dB, or to make things easier, let the dB meter hit the red occasionally. If its hitting constantly in the red, then its gonna be a distorted mix. Let it ride in the green or blue area and let the red show once in a while.

[Ill Green]

Holy Dipstick! At 80dB would make his ears bleed!!!

Standard mixing would be -4dB to 0dB, or to make things easier, let the dB meter hit the red occasionally. If its hitting constantly in the red, then its gonna be a distorted mix. Let it ride in the green or blue area and let the red show once in a while.

[polyphonics]

:lol: Holy Dipstick! At 80dB would make his ears bleed!!!

Standard mixing would be -4dB to 0dB, or to make things easier, let the dB meter hit the red occasionally. If its hitting constantly in the red, then its gonna be a distorted mix. Let it ride in the green or blue area and let the red show once in a while.

We are talking about different things. I am talking about dB SPL ; your reference of '0 dB' , I imagine, is in terms of either a VU meter or digital signal meter. Dont be fooled that simply because both are represented in dB that they are the same thing. The reference values to which they refer are different.

Given the original question, dB SPL is the appropriate measure because we are talking about the loudness to monitor the mix.

The 'db' that you are referring to is a reference for electrical power and voltage. The reason you want your signal to top out around, but not above, 0 dB is so that the maximum voltage will be produced while not producing distortion.

[dinner-for-two]

bump it in a car loud

[Ill Green]

@Polyphonic - Okay, I understand you now. You're talking about SPLs. Yes, you're right that 80dB would be equal to a radio(15w type) playing at a volume of 5 or 6. You were talking about film standards, so I guess that would be appropiate knowledge in Foley and sound effects.

But he is mixing with the SP-303, so sound is transformed into electric signals, thats why I say -4 to 0dB. But anyway, you say tomatoe and I say tamato.

Peace