Hacking the 404SX

[modulr]

http://www.box.net/shared/08nijs48d8

don't get confused, it's called DCOPTN024.BIN too... (Pattern C1)

one bar / sample A1 is on gate and played non quantized/hold nearly the whole pattern... might not start at 1.1 exactly...

on the old 404 you just have access to the patterns that are stored on the cf-card... hope it's not an issue that the sample is from bank A?
If you need a new file lemme know...

*hey man i just updated the link...

schweet! it confirms the thought.. they flipped the order of the note off bytes, and that other change is def the number of bars in the pat. Other than that, everything else is looking the same. So it should be pretty easy to make it auto detect a 404 vs. SX pattern and adjust accordingly.

There is one set of numbers on both I don't understand yet but it doesn't seem to effect building the patterns as midi, also will eventually have to do some experiments with the quantize cos haven't even touched that part yet.

def looks promising!

[wax inspektor]

Man... free beers and blunts if that shit works out...

[Dr Van Nostrand]

so if this works out am i going to be able to visually sequence in a program on my comp, load that onto the cf card and then it will play that sequence on the 404?? and i would have all the quantize control the 404 has and velocity control for each sequenced note as well??? that would be big.....is it at all possible to expand on the capabilities of the sequencer?? like maybe a little offset swing or at least free placement without being constrained to a grid??

[timfromtexas]

edit

never mind i dont know if i know what im talking about

[cartesia]

.....is it at all possible to expand on the capabilities of the sequencer?? like maybe a little offset swing or at least free placement without being constrained to a grid??

not possible to change the sequencer.. all we're doing here is reading/editing data files, not actual functions of the machine.

the 404 pattern's arent stuck to a grid? I dont think i understand what you mean by this.

[timfromtexas]

what i had said and then deleted was that you guys are talking

404--> memory card --> computer

not

computer --> memory card -- >404

creation on 404 then dumping to the computer not the other way around

right? or am i wrong or would it work both ways

[Jim Y]

Tim, midi to pattern file conversion looks possible, but priority is in the other direction I'd think.

It's already possible to get a midi groove into a 404 over a midi cable, but I'd think a utility would be much neater. I haven't done it, but IIRC midi recording on a 404 needs you to be right on the mark with the key pushes.

BTW - The factory files have varying note velocity? So maybe they've not been made on a 404 in the first place? Cheats!

Jim

[timfromtexas]

word... i wasnt really asking.. but thanks for shouting it out

[modulr]

yeah, going in the reverse direction is definitely possible from the looks of things... Just gonna try to get 404 pattern -> midi file working first.

[PHeMoX]

.....is it at all possible to expand on the capabilities of the sequencer?? like maybe a little offset swing or at least free placement without being constrained to a grid??

not possible to change the sequencer.. all we're doing here is reading/editing data files, not actual functions of the machine.

You are right, but we could add a swing in the editor program and then copy the pattern file back on to the memory card though! The SP-404s don't lock notes to a grid indeed and do not quantize on each and every playback. It's actually a destructible kind of input quantize, so what you'll put in timing-wise, will be how it's going to be played back.

the 404 pattern's arent stuck to a grid? I dont think i understand what you mean by this.

I don't think that's accurate. The sequencer must have a certain resolution to stick notes to upon play when recording, even if it's mostly just time-recorded stuff between two points.

BTW - The factory files have varying note velocity? So maybe they've not been made on a 404 in the first place? Cheats!

That or they have used a midi keyboard hooked up to the SP-404.

[cartesia]

I don't think that's accurate. The sequencer must have a certain resolution to stick notes to upon play when recording, even if it's mostly just time-recorded stuff between two points.

Yes.. .of course there is some finite resolution in a digital system - but it should not be noticeable to any human... So I dont know what the original question about things being stuck to a grid was about.

[Dr Van Nostrand]

well i was looking at the grid that moduLR had posted a page or so ago that had a visual read out of what a pattern looked like, so i was thinking you could program a sequence in something like that, then convert it so that it is a pattern on the card, pop the card in and have the pattern as you had drawn it out

so then when i was thinking about drawing out a sequence, i was wondering if you would be constrained to a grid of sorts that was like maybe down to 32nd notes like the quantize on the 404 is, or if you could free place things on the grid anywhere so it didn't snap to a certain quantize value, but i bet that would be possible considering you can go no quantize on the 404 (i think i saw people talking about this earlier in the thread and it was based on clicks or something and how many clicks are in a bar), but would it be possible to write in an offset value for quantizing?? pretty much like a swing percentage function so it would offset the playing of a note a certain amount from a quantized value, i would totally be about that, programing on the comp for a pattern i knew i wanted to make and i could mess with the note velocity and the swing, i don't have a MIDI cable or the greatest program to write MIDI in, so this would be real fun to use for me and be an alternative to creating complex patterns right in the box

[modulr]

basically what you saw was a pattern converted to midi then imported into ableton live. It's not so much a grid, just live's piano roll (you can place stuff where ever you want). You can edit the midi in whatever program you like. The goal will ultimately be to make both ways possible... pattern->midi and midi->pattern. There wouldn't be a grid beyond the SP resolution (96 ticks per quarter note).

[Jim Y]

I think get you Dr Van N...

One thing, you'd need the same sounds in the grid program that you'll use in the 404. Otherwise different attacks and relative volumes between the samples could make your programmed groove feel totally different once it's in the 404. Such a program would best work if you're using the 404 as the sound module, for which you'd need a midi hook-up.

Of course, if the program amounted to a complete virtual 404 (What you edit is what you'll hear), then exported to a card the whole thing - samples, patterns & settings, that would be Nirvana! Not impossible, but asking for a lot!

Midi file conversion will do me just fine for now!

Jim

[cartesia]

yeah I dont think we'll be making our own midi editor, just creating a midi file that you can load up in whatever program you already have..

As for triggering the 404 from the midi...
Just plug your 404 into your midi interface and it will work exactly as you want it to (provided your midi stuff in software is setup right)