bass?

[DREWDANK]

hey guys always wondered this. like when madlib or dilla or any producer now does there bass kicks it like sucks in the song? anyone know what im talking about? like the volume of the beat changes so you can bassicly just hear that. i dno if i am making sense if anyone knows how to do that on an sp404 lemme know

[kel]

i think i know what you mean. if you record the kick in at a high level, and record your music chops at a lower level, then throw the vinyl sim on both you can get that vacuum effect. it works also if you just turns the level of the music part down afterward, but i think setting the levels lower before you sample it sounds more exaggerated/defined. can't remember who said it first on here but that's how i learned it.

[DREWDANK]

im gonna try it pretty soon thanks man. surprised you understood

[ColeRockLee]

its a compression method usually referred to as "ducking"

[Dr Van Nostrand]

yeah, usually the result of some heavy compression, alot of people say that it is more specifically the use of sidechain compression, with i believe an EQ sidechained in so that when the compressor's threshold is reached and it compresses, it does it based off the EQ which is usually bumped up with the low, then just with the attack and decay that makes it warp in and out, i am not sure about that technique totally, thats just the way i think it works from reading about it as people have brought it up, it definitely involves some pretty heavy compression though, i do know that

[DREWDANK]

yeah, usually the result of some heavy compression, alot of people say that it is more specifically the use of sidechain compression, with i believe an EQ sidechained in so that when the compressor's threshold is reached and it compresses, it does it based off the EQ which is usually bumped up with the low, then just with the attack and decay that makes it warp in and out, i am not sure about that technique totally, thats just the way i think it works from reading about it as people have brought it up, it definitely involves some pretty heavy compression though, i do know that

you know how to do that from a 404?

its a compression method usually referred to as "ducking"

you know how to do it on a 404?

[Dr Van Nostrand]

i don't know how well it can be achieved, but the idea would be to have the kick be loud enough in comparison to the sample so that it comes in heavy, i think the best way would be to do heavy compression across everything, vinyl or maybe even 12, i've been using 12 way more than i used to recently, i used to think it was too harsh sounding, but puttin it across everything can be fat, but you would turn down the sample a bunch with the level, then have the kick be louder and then just mess with its volume, it might sound better to crank the sp's output volume so the sample sounds normal volume to record at and then adjust the kick from there, maybe there's a better way, but this should be something like what your looking for, actually this is pretty much what dude above described, but i'm already typed it so i'm postin anyway

[ColeRockLee]

Ha. Well said. ^ ^ ^

[DREWDANK]

i don't know how well it can be achieved, but the idea would be to have the kick be loud enough in comparison to the sample so that it comes in heavy, i think the best way would be to do heavy compression across everything, vinyl or maybe even 12, i've been using 12 way more than i used to recently, i used to think it was too harsh sounding, but puttin it across everything can be fat, but you would turn down the sample a bunch with the level, then have the kick be louder and then just mess with its volume, it might sound better to crank the sp's output volume so the sample sounds normal volume to record at and then adjust the kick from there, maybe there's a better way, but this should be something like what your looking for, actually this is pretty much what dude above described, but i'm already typed it so i'm postin anyway

just did it and it worked thanks broham. just a vision for a beat i had. thanks alot man

[Rhua]

So this is how it's done. I recognized this on Fly-Los tea leaf dancers track, at first I thought something was wrong with my speaker but it seems that it's intention.

[Les Braun]

Use Vinyl Sim or the Compressor (effect 12).

[Huph]

The effect you guys are describing was almost definitely done in post-production at a mastering house. I've seen Flying Lotus live and his beats do not have that annoying "swimminess" except on record. It's done mostly in two steps. Madlib, Dilla, Lotus, etc, will use the ducking technique described (you can do it just by playing with volume knobs, no effects necessary) and then the mastering house is hard-limiting the final mix. (Also, remember that none of these guys solely used a 303 or a 404. All of their tracks were sent to mixing engineers and mastering houses, that's just the way the record industry works. "Everything must be done in the most expensive way possible so we can screw artists on the recoup")

It sounds like I'm knocking the technique, but it can be done tastefully. Portishead do it and it sounds neat. It's just that they do it from a compositional standpoint, whereas most of the time you hear that effect because the mix has been slammed flat against a wall by the mastering engineer.

[DREWDANK]

yeah for sure man. i was just wondering cuz i want that effect on one of my beats i got an idea.

[PHeMoX]

The effect you guys are describing was almost definitely done in post-production at a mastering house. I've seen Flying Lotus live and his beats do not have that annoying "swimminess" except on record. It's done mostly in two steps. Madlib, Dilla, Lotus, etc, will use the ducking technique described (you can do it just by playing with volume knobs, no effects necessary) and then the mastering house is hard-limiting the final mix. (Also, remember that none of these guys solely used a 303 or a 404. All of their tracks were sent to mixing engineers and mastering houses, that's just the way the record industry works.

Yeah, I think I agree on this. Perhaps it's more the byproduct / result of an overzealous mastering sound engineer.

It's pretty difficult to raise volume of a kick you've compressed of used a heavy filter on. Some phat kicks can be achieved by finding higher pitched kicks (with a hi-hat or snare on it or something like that) and then use a low pass filter.

Compression could work, but for both the filter and compression it's a matter of not overdoing it to get best results. Then again, most you got great ear for a good kick chop.

[V-F!]

Vinyl Sim causes a nice pumping and breathing effect that sounds similar to ducking. With Vinyl Sim Cranked all the sounds are fighting to be the loudest. Can't duck with an SP alone. You need a compressor with a key in. Put the compressor on the sound you want to get quieter. Make a copy of the sound you want to trigger the ducking and put it the key in. Now everytime your key hits the track will duck(how much depends on threshold settings and attack release etc.).