resample and pattern sequencer

[Dr Van Nostrand]

i've noticed this for a while but never had it really be a problem, its just somethin you catch on to, but i've never seen it mentioned on here in my time here and i am wondering if anybody else has noticed it.....have you ever made a pattern that involved layering two of the same sample, like 1 filtered for a fuller low end or whatever, and have the pattern phase every few times through, its pretty audibly noticeable each time through usually, or maybe every few times through, or another similar example is when you go to make a new pattern that is exactly like an existing one but maybe with a new drum pattern or something (no flylo trick, just sequencing exactly the same), and between the two patterns they sound differently, even though all the same samples are all quantized the same, usually right on the 1 of the first measure, anybody else ever notice something like this??

[Dr Van Nostrand]

oh, this is totally 404 related too, although maybe other people on other boxes have similar problems, i have a 303 and 404 and have only noticed it on the 404, although i use the 404 much more when it comes to sequencing

[PHeMoX]

have you ever made a pattern that involved layering two of the same sample, like 1 filtered for a fuller low end or whatever, and have the pattern phase every few times through, its pretty audibly noticeable each time through usually, or maybe every few times through,

Yes, but usually there's no phasing through at all. I layer and resample loads of samples onto the same pad these days, but I didn't do that on any of my SPs. I wasn't quite aware of this technique back then. Not sure why it's phasing through in your case though.

or another similar example is when you go to make a new pattern that is exactly like an existing one but maybe with a new drum pattern or something (no flylo trick, just sequencing exactly the same), and between the two patterns they sound differently, even though all the same samples are all quantized the same, usually right on the 1 of the first measure, anybody else ever notice something like this??

Yeah, I sometimes add hi-hat rhythms with separate shuffle quantize settings. The hi-hats that hit on exactly the same time do make an annoying phase fx and need to be removed.

When chopping off the high-end with filters and resampling though, I don't usually experience that issue.

[dman5000]

i know exactly what you are talking about.... when im layering 2 phrases of the same sample (say one high one low) i have to tweak one of them pretty hard so they dont cancel each other out sonically ..... but the other thing im thinking from your post is that i was totally convinced for awhile that even on quantize theres wiggle room in placement, i came to this conclusion through 2 experiances a. i sequence consistent 16th high hats then go back and sequence 4th's to make it "tighter" b. if im doing 4's all the way through i keep hitting the pads at least twice through and i really think it sounds "tighter" but then i was thinking maybe its just my ears/speaker placement etc so i never really mentioned anything
my final solution for all these quantize/groove issues is to have silence before almost every sample i use and then i quantize usually only in 4 or 8 and adjust the start point while the pttern is playing until im satisfied. (i think thats a juxt tip - props, it works on everything)

anyone else think that the quantize has wiggle room?

[PHeMoX]

anyone else think that the quantize has wiggle room?

Nah, I don't quite think so. There are spaces in different places ( 'accents' ) when you use a shuffled quantize, but that's normal quantize behavior. In no way the quantize itself is off.

But when you're trying to squeeze an extra row of 16th notes in between a grid of 4th notes, you will have some that overlap eachother. That will usually not work and cause phasing ruining the sound.

(I think very tightly chopped samples have a bigger phase than loosely chopped samples with some silence in there though, but that might be an audio illusion.)

my final solution for all these quantize/groove issues is to have silence before almost every sample i use and then i quantize usually only in 4 or 8 and adjust the start point while the pttern is playing until im satisfied.

Yeah, that's the best remedy to counter the sometimes 'robotic' groove you can get from using quantize. Especially people coming from the MPC series, who are used to a slightly softer quantize, usually say the quantize on the MV is off, but it's just tighter. A silence before the samples, good user timing and no over-use of quantize correction will make the beat feel much more natural.

I kind of like the robotic feel when making my beats, but you can make really natural laid-back grooves with most Roland samplers. But correctly using quantize is something of an art really.

[IIIII]

sometimes my 404 slows down between patterns when i have it maxed out on samples. it just cant play back fast enough and it goes off time for a quick moment.

[dman5000]

anyone else think that the quantize has wiggle room?

But when you're trying to squeeze an extra row of 16th notes in between a grid of 4th notes, you will have some that overlap eachother. That will usually not work and cause phasing ruining the sound.

what do you mean 'an extra row of 16th notes'? i sort of get what you say in regards to 16.3 but how can a 4th note be different than the first 16th note of a beat?

[PHeMoX]

I'm probably making this look more complicated than it is. You're right, certain notes will be played at the same time, causing the phasing.