404 sound in live settings

[roxy-dylan]

hello all,

writing today to ask advice about the sp 404 and live performance sound. had a show last night and thoroughly disappointed by the sound of beats that sound pretty damn fresh at home. especially kick drums. talked to the sound guy (who is the best i've ever come across and have worked with many times) and he explained that sound is a different beast from your home stereo/studio to a rock club, and you have to anticipate the difference. going on a tour this fall and wanna make sure them beats sound tight in the bars, any suggestions? any pre-amps or boosters that work well? thanks to all of the contributors to the forum, this is a goldmine of info.

[cartesia]

I dont have much first hand experience, but from what i know:

use less stereo/reverb/spacey washey sounds.. all gets blurred out unless you're playing on a seriously hi-fi system.

you don't need as much compression (and chances are they sound guy is compressing the shit out of everything anyway to stop DJs blowing things up)

eq things more harshly I guess maybe?

The problem seems to be either:
- too many spacious/wide/stereo/reverby/airy sounds blurring together
or
- too many powerful thick sounds clashing

if you can, try to arrange some time to go muck around on a club PA while there's nobody there (daytime etc). . . stand out in the middle of the floor, and check things out, try different combinations of sounds, effects, etc.. to get an idea of exactly what works and what doesnt.

I think there's a reason why alot of the successful live electronic music sounds kind of 'basic' when you just listen to a recording of it.

[Jim Y]

Shorter,tighter hits. They probably won't sound quite heavy enough on your typical home or car system, but larger venues and installed speakers can make low pitch sounds ring on after they've actually stopped playing, making it boom and blur. You'll probably need to make sure the hits have a good beater/stick click that defines the start of the hit to the listener - usually done by blending a side stick or similar sound over the basic drum sample. That way even electronic drum sounds have more definition in the mix.

I'm a bass guitar player and usually have to play shorter, snappier notes in live venues. Sometimes have to resort to using a pick (though I'd rather finger pluck) in order to get some definition - otherwise the whole bands timing suffers. Drummers stick carpet & pillows in the drum shells and damp out the skins with tissue and sticky-tape for the same reason.

Don't forget though that an empty venue sounds completely different to a well filled one. Human bodies are great sound absorbers and enough of them usually stops sound ringing on in the room too much.

What Cartesia said about stereo spread is good advice - especially if the venue has a mono system which isn't unusual. Try listening with only one output from the 404 - does it sound tighter? Use mono samples for the main hits. A stereo kick or snare sample makes no sense and if the original sound is stereo - then only use one side for your sample, don't make it mono by mixing both sides into mono.

Jim