Rocker needs advice on if a 404 fits my needs

GhostofJohnToad · Post by **GhostofJohnToad** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:26 pm

Currently I am getting sick and tired of computer recording strictly and am going more the hardware route. I purchased a Zoom HD8CD for my recording needs, which is great. It also contains a drum machine that I can load samples into but it has very few options. I also have an old SR16, but the sounds on that are dated. I am feeling the need to liven up my drum sounds and get some juices flowing. I am kinda on the fence right now between the 404, 555, mpc1k, and mpc500. I have been reading a lot about all these units but not knowing a whole lot about samplers I am a little vague. If it was a guitar I'd have no issues deciding.

My needs are:

1) ability to get standard drum sounds loaded and used as a typical drum machine for typical rock music.
2) Would be really nice add existing midi drum patterns to the unit and likewise get them off after I have created something interesting.
2) Don't really care about live functionality except from a "jam to get ideas" scenario.
3) ability to share with a computer, get pre-setup samples to the unit.
4) I have messed with Reason 4 a bit and I really like the Dr. Rex instrument. Do any of these hardware samplers do any thing like that?
5) Something I can grow with. I am always eager to learn new things.

Sorry for all the questions but I feel like a fish out of water and I'm trying to learn how to swim. Thanx

pt3r · Post by **pt3r** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:47 pm

From what I read I would rather with an mpc. A 555 might be an option if your budget is too tight for an mpc.

Dr Van Nostrand · Post by **Dr Van Nostrand** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:15 pm

yeah, the 1k might be what your lookin for.......but a 404 could handle it if you had access to drum sounds, if you end up goin with the 404 (or 555) make sure you stay on here for all sorts of good ways to get your drums tight, 404 (or 555) is def a machine you can grow with.....and cop some records and sample stuff too, why not, IT'S FUN!!! we swear

GhostofJohnToad · Post by **GhostofJohnToad** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:10 pm

I have access to a LOT of drums sounds. I bought a bunch of beta monkey discs and I have a bunch of other stuff on computer. At least 20+ GB of drums and samples. Have to being a solo guy. Also have two friends who would let me record some hits off their sets. My H2 will be perfect for that. Thing about the mpc stuff that has me a bit nervous is all the extras to buy, ram, pads, jj os, etc. However I do have a spare laptop HD for a 1k, and I have plenty of old CF cards laying around, so I don't know. I can get in the door to a 404 much cheaper though and that may be the deciding factor. Just don't want to get one and wish I got the other.

Jim Y · Post by **Jim Y** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:35 pm

You can't import or record existing midi pattern files into a 404. It uses its own seq file type, which probably is based on midi data, but there's no conversion available that I know of (Yet!).
The pads on the 404 are a matter of taste (really, they're switches - no velocity). But if the SR16 you have still works and you like it's pads, you can drive the 404 from the SR16 patterns and program with it's pads - just ignore the SR16 audio out and set it up to send midi to the 404.

Whatever else and seen purely as a sample-player, there's nothing close the 404 at the price.

Jim

DREWDANK · Post by **DREWDANK** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:16 pm

i wouldnt use a 404...the pads are real close and i often hit a few...if your doing rock drum things or if your doing patterns...plus there isnt a swing function and you might want that. mpc...

GhostofJohnToad · Post by **GhostofJohnToad** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:46 pm

Ok, is the mpc swing function the same idea as the sr16?

tape smoke · Post by **tape smoke** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:08 pm

mpc swing is kinda like sp 505 swing, but more destructive. but if you got it down then its no problem and i heard people doubling and tripling things up sounded cool. you can swing each track seperate on mpc . also on a 505.

GhostofJohnToad · Post by **GhostofJohnToad** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:37 pm

just looked up a vid on youtube on the swing feature for the mpc and I like how one can define the swing to be earlier or later on the beat and not just by a %. Cool feature but not sure if that's a show stopper for me.

5ch0k0 · Post by **5ch0k0** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:13 pm

I would rather get a drum machine instead of an SP or other sampler. I am more into faster beats 130-160bpm and I can only use my SP-404 as a good gadget but nothing more. The SP-404 does up to 200bpm . Since I use a MC-505 and SP-404...both combined make very nice tricky beats.

Now I´m looking for a good drummachine myself and I´ll probably be buying myself a Jomox xbase09 in a few days. The SP´s are very good samplers but that don´t replace a good drummachine

reignbear · Post by **reignbear** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:52 pm

GhostofJohnToad wrote:I have access to a LOT of drums sounds. I bought a bunch of beta monkey discs and I have a bunch of other stuff on computer. At least 20+ GB of drums and samples. Have to being a solo guy. Also have two friends who would let me record some hits off their sets. My H2 will be perfect for that. Thing about the mpc stuff that has me a bit nervous is all the extras to buy, ram, pads, jj os, etc. However I do have a spare laptop HD for a 1k, and I have plenty of old CF cards laying around, so I don't know. I can get in the door to a 404 much cheaper though and that may be the deciding factor. Just don't want to get one and wish I got the other.

Owning both the mpc1k and the sp404(and sp505), i would agree with everyone else that the 1k looks like the best bet for your needs.

I wouldn't get too caught up in the fact that you need all of that stuff for your mpc to use it. from what you're describing i don't really think you'll need the extra RAM, or a HDD, or JJ OS and if it's a new machine(or recent used) you won't have to worry about the pads.

no doubt jj os is dope, but the mpc is a good machine without it that would cover your needs. however, if i were you that would be my first upgrade with the step sequencing, grid editing and quantize strength.

also you don't need all that stuff to start out with, so if you really feel that they are things that you'll need to get the most out of the machine you can spread out purchasing them.

Dj_just_jeff · Post by **Dj_just_jeff** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:27 am

how about an electribe sampler, the sequencer is super easy to use and you can get the old mkII sampler for like 200 bucks. The sequencer is DOPE and EASY and you can put ANY sounds in it you want. http://www.planet-groove.com/korg/electribe_s_mkii.html

j dilla used one of these. I had the newer korg esx-1, but sold it and got a mpc 1k, i prefer the electribe, i just sold my mpc. check it out, very intuitive.

Bellsauce · Post by **Bellsauce** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:03 am

Hmm. I'd say use pretty much any electribe (I like the EM-1 to start) as your MIDI sequencer and sync it to a 404, or even a 303. Then you'd have:

1.) The song composing options of the electribe (you could program intro/verse/chorus parts and save it as a song)

-and-

2.) the 404/303 would have whatever drum sounds (or other samples) you loaded it up with, and would certainly have more room/sampling time than an electribe sampler.

The electribe can record MIDI from external sources if you set it to "external clock," and press "record." when you press "play" on your MIDI source (laptop, whatever) the electribe will receive the MIDI info to whatever pattern is loaded up. Just make sure the MIDI parts are on corresponding channels. I like rhythm elements on 10, bass on 1, lead on 2.

You could get both of these, used, for less than $400 if you're patient.

I run a EM-1 as master into an EMX-1, and then 2 synth parts of the EMX-1 are dedicated to triggering samples on a Roland SP-555. They all play pretty well together once you get thru learning MIDI.

GhostofJohnToad · Post by **GhostofJohnToad** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:21 am

I'm still pretty torn, but the electribe tandem thing sounds interesting.

This morning I was all set to get a mpc1000, but the more I read the more I think the sp555 might be the ticket especially for the loop capture aspect which would allow me to plug my guitar in direct and loop that and then combine that with usb, midi in/out, and 2GB CF...

The real big thing right now is workflow. This seems the biggest thing right now, I'm trying to get away from the computer and move to something organic. I want to play it rather than have it play me.

I'll look into the electribes though, thank for the heads up on that guys.

drewzle · Post by **drewzle** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:24 am

GhostofJohnToad wrote:The real big thing right now is workflow. This seems the biggest thing right now, I'm trying to get away from the computer and move to something organic. I want to play it rather than have it play me.

the workflow of the SPs is much more organic than MPCs
you play them like instruments, once they're switched on you're set
MPCs offer much more options etc, but at the cost of limiting immediate workflow

whenever i jam with my mate who has a MPC1k, by the time he has loaded his drum kit i've already sampled/chopped a full bank and am sequencing it