Newbie tips! pleeeaase!

gordiegords · Post by **gordiegords** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:20 pm

Hey people hows it going, after doing some research on the 404 and the kp3 i have decided to take the plunge and go for the 404, i'am not a dj i'am in a band and want to get into sampling, mostly used for before certain songs but i also would like to sample lead vocals and mess about with it live, this looks like a good machine to do the business eh, i think what swayed me was i'm sure i read that the kaos can only sample 7 seconds in one sample, is this right? i need more than that and i havent read anywhere about the roland having a limited sample time. can anyone shed any light on this? surely whatever i have on the 1 gig card can be sampled? also are aiff files smaller than wav? i take it the 404 cant read .mp3 files, i can see myself compressing the wav files as there quite big to begin with.

any thoughts would be great

thanks

gordie

Dj Frantic · Post by **Dj Frantic** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:42 pm

Kaoss pad is not really a sampler. Its an effects unit that has some very limited sampling available. The SP404 is probably just the thing for you. The sampling limit of the internal memory is about 5 minutes and on CF card ne where from 30 minutes to 6 hours. AIFF is basically just a mac version of a WAV. No significant difference. both work on both platforms. You really wouldnt need to compress the wav files if u have a decently sized card. You can also run audio through the 404 and use FX on it.

gordiegords · Post by **gordiegords** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:57 pm

Hey thanks for that, yeah i think i'll take the plunge, sometimes i can over think things instead of just getting on with it, all i want to do is load up some samples for intros and stuff and sample vocals which i would probably record beforehamd them i would hope to intergrate the coval into a live perfomance, while messing about with effects, it certainly looks like you get alot of bang for your buck, good price.

drewzle · Post by **drewzle** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:29 pm

yeah the 404 sounds ideal for what you want. it's a really dynamic performance tool, very expressive with those FX

what sort of music does your band make?

gordiegords · Post by **gordiegords** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:35 pm

kind of indie, ish, radiohead ish something like that, i use alot of effects, i have tc elctronics g system for my guitar, we dont have many electronic sounds apart from my guitar playing but we are always up for adding new sounds to our set and wouldnt rule out anything, if it sounds good then i will use it, i used to the decks years agoand i think i'm the best band member to utilize the machine, you can check a couple of our videos on our myspace www.myspace.com/dayofdaysmusic i wouldnt advise listening to the tunes in the player but the videos are pretty good.

have a looky.

hopefully i will order 404 tommorow

Jim Y · Post by **Jim Y** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:26 pm

404 is probably the only game in town for the money (if we're talking about buying brand new) and it does respond to midi notes so you can use some kind of midi foot controller/drum trigger for when you're hands are full of guitar. The last 4 sample banks on a card are on the next midi channel up from all the others, so another member of the band can trigger it's samples remotely with a midi controller while you can use the pads. No remote midi control of the FX though, so you'll need hands free for that.
I'm sure you'll all have fun with a 404 and get into things you never thought of - it does a lot and the only way to find out is to use one.

No difference between .wav and .aif other than the part of the file that describes the audio format (header). The important thing is they must be 44.1K 16bit with no data compression.

One other thing, make up your mind if a sample needs to be stereo before importing. The 404 cannot change pan (apart from the auto pan/tremelo fx) - you're probably best off with mono samples which use less memory and only use one of the 12 available voices (stereo counts for 2 of em!). If a sample is stereo (and for some reason, many commercial ones are even though it's of a mono instrument), I prefer to make a new mono file from only one of the channels, usually the left, in my sound editor. Stereo drum loops are probably better left in stereo.

Enjoy
Jim

gordiegords · Post by **gordiegords** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:24 pm

Hi, thanks for that, i was wondering about weather i should use stereo or not, this confuses me a little as the line ins and outs are stereo so if i was to use stereo i would have to purchase a rca lead to a 2 xlr and then plug into 2 seperate channels on the snake, i'm maybe being over fussy, i'm sure i can deal with that when the time comes. at the moment i have a 2 rca to one stereo jack which i will then plug into a jack to xlr adapter then into the snake.

should be ok. Can anyone shed any light on the best way to hook up to a snake then back out from the lead vocal on a mixer?

Jim Y · Post by **Jim Y** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:24 pm

Well, the 404 FX are a bit short on stereo too. There's no stereo ping-pong effect. It can really only preserve stereo pan of whatevers already in any stereo samples or coming into the line-ins. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the tremelo/panner FX is the only thing that affects stereo and that's a kind of auto LFO pan.

If it's a mono sample, it plays equally on both channels. If you record a mono sample, it takes a mix of left and right line inputs. If it's the mic, internal or external, recording to stereo puts the same on both channels.

So, if you're going to work it off the main pa mixer, you could use one line of the snake that's got the output of a mixer FX /aux send (which is probably mono anyway) to a 404 RCA line in (either) then send one of the line outs back to a mixer channel.

gordiegords · Post by **gordiegords** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:31 pm

Yes that is what i was thinking, so basically i would need 1 phono to jack (unbalanced or balanced) then into jack to xlr adapter, then into snake, then aux send from lead vocal from the mixer, through snake and back into phono line ins. does that sound about right?

cartesia · Post by **cartesia** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:59 am

do you need loops that instantly play back after recording?

if so the 404 is not gonna work.

gordiegords · Post by **gordiegords** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:59 am

ahh, bummer, it would have been handy but it isnt essential, can you explain this proccess to me? why is that not possible, am i right in thinking i can use the 404 effects live if the vocal is going through the sampler? and also i can record vocals that go into the sampler? dont tell me i have to make all my samples outwith the machine, if so whats the point in having line in's. i would be greatfull for your input here.

thanks

cartesia · Post by **cartesia** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:08 am

you can do all that,
- you just have to stop what's currently playing in order to record a new sample

also once its recorded, it wont instantly start looping - you have to hit the sample's pad button again to start it playing

so it really depends what kind of a situation you're going to be using it in - whether constant playback is important to you. ( you can leave the ext source playing through though so that wont 'stop'

gordiegords · Post by **gordiegords** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:22 am

the chances of me needing to record and instantly play back are slim, here is a scenario in whinch i would be using it, hit a sample at the beginning of a song, then on second verse while the lead singer is singing i can mess with his voice with the effects yes? if i wanted to do a live sample then play it back it say on the next bar i wouldnt be able to do it, or have time, is that correct?

cheers again

cartesia · Post by **cartesia** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:17 pm

that would all be fine -

with the recording a sample then playing it back next bar, its really just a matter of not being able to hit "stop record" then "pad# whatever" close enough together to be in time, thats all.

gordiegords · Post by **gordiegords** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:23 pm

Sounds good to me, i'm sure it will be good fun whatever, the quicker i get stuck in the better.