Loop Layering

Navek · Post by **Navek** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:57 am

Once again, excuse the amateurism...

Put simply: What is the easiest way to synch loops so that if played at the same time they don't drift apart, timing-wise? I imagine there is a relatively simply way to achieve this. For example, I have some samples: live instruments recorded in loop capture, drum samples imported from the flash card, patterns recorded using drum sounds, etc, and want to arrange my samples so that I can play and loop them together, without them drifting apart. ??

Apologies for the very basic question. Your help is HUGELY appreciated to a newcomer like me. After checking around this forum a bit it seems you're a solid group! I'm eager to get in on the battles..

Cheers

Euclid Ov Oåklånd · Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:41 am

If you match the tempos of your samples using the time/bpm button and you mix 4/4 beats then you should be good.

tape smoke · Post by **tape smoke** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:03 pm

i recomend if the loop is 2 bars or shorter. to set the pattern length to 2 bars(saves a bit of time, instead of looping around 4 bars), make sure the samples are set to drum ( no gate or loop ) and you can adjust the start points while the pattern is playing to get the tightest effect. then once you know your loop is tight, make the pattern as long as you want and you know it will loop right. oh yea quantize helps too .

Dj Frantic · Post by **Dj Frantic** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:24 pm

How are you capturing these loops ? are you certain they are all exactly on point ? If they are not exactly on point they will drift apart eventually. The best thing to do is to continue to trigger them with loop turned off or use the pattern sequencer.

Euclid Ov Oåklånd · Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:24 pm

Word, that's why DJ's are always back cueing and riding the pitch fader. The best way I've heard it is to imagine two cars racing side by side if one car gets ahead then the other car has to accelerate to a faster speed to catch up and then maintain a matched speed(tempo). Since we have samplers though, we can just press a button on the first down beat of the chosen rhythm track aka "drop it on the one" in Hip Hop lingo. Since almost all modern music uses a 4/4 time signature then the fundamental structure is the same and they can be superimposed or "syncopated" over each other due to the fact that they will mathematically always share a common factor. So when you hear the
1 |2 |3 |4
Kick Snare Kick Snare
just place the sample on one of those divisions of the whole bar and things should start to match up.

jbl · Post by **jbl** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:30 am

i like the car analogy.
you can trim perfect loops on some of the freeware programs out there and then import them.

JTSC · Post by **JTSC** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:37 am

I have a snazzy bpm counter on my mixer I use, but the sp shows the BPM of your samples as well (assuming you're just looping it). If I'm looping something, I usually set the pattern tempo the same as the sample and mold everything else (drums, bass) around that. If I chop a sample I usually do the opposite-drums first, then have the pieces of the sample fall in a rhythmic pattern (ie chop 1 on 1's and 3's, chop 2 on 2's and 4's)

kel · Post by **kel** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:40 am

the bpm reading on the 404 can lie unless you're synching by midi

Euclid Ov Oåklånd · Post by **Euclid Ov Oåklånd** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:07 am

Plus most bpm's are not exact whole numbers, but the ear can hear the drift and correct for it.

tape smoke · Post by **tape smoke** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:07 am

jbl wrote:i like the car analogy.
you can trim perfect loops on some of the freeware programs out there and then import them.

i find trimming while the pattern is playing works best for me . because the start points can be deceiving .

Navek · Post by **Navek** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:44 pm

Wow, thanks all for the solid replies and advice. I'm intending to use the 555 for recording piano / synth / kaos pad guitar etc. (no loops, just interface to my computer) while adding sampled drums and myriad other interesting loops and sounds over top. Before, I was recording each layer of a song track by track, but since grabbing the 555 I see that using a sampler opens up infinite creative explorations, especially in the rhythm / drums area. I'm now in the process of "re-constructing" the way I make and record music; the 555 changes everything. All that to say this forum is amazing, a huge help. Thanks!

I post a track soon hopefully.. mua haha

Mike Acosta · Post by **Mike Acosta** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:08 am

Navek wrote:Wow, thanks all for the solid replies and advice. I'm intending to use the 555 for recording piano / synth / kaos pad guitar etc. (no loops, just interface to my computer) while adding sampled drums and myriad other interesting loops and sounds over top. Before, I was recording each layer of a song track by track, but since grabbing the 555 I see that using a sampler opens up infinite creative explorations, especially in the rhythm / drums area. I'm now in the process of "re-constructing" the way I make and record music; the 555 changes everything. All that to say this forum is amazing, a huge help. Thanks!

I post a track soon hopefully.. mua haha

Hey Navek

When you track into your computer thru the 555 try using the GTR amp modeling on the 555's MFX , its modeled after some of the best Boss pedal effects and yields some pretty amzing results for a " sampler box ".

Also using programs like Project 5 and Ableton Live work great with the 555 since you can clock the 555 thru USB to LIve and capture live loops back into the 555 utilizing Live's effects and simpler module.

I took a vocal line ran it thru the 555's Dj FX Looper then ran that into Live thru Ableton's Beat Repeat , and tracked it to an Audio track. Then took that audio track and bounced it back into the 555 as a phrase sample.

Talk about mangling vocals beyond recognition ! It sounded cool though. LOL

JayLost · Post by **JayLost** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:56 am

yup i use ableton live and the 555 bouncing stuff back and forth all the time works great!!

DREWDANK · Post by **DREWDANK** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:39 am

dope cuts wrote:i recomend if the loop is 2 bars or shorter. to set the pattern length to 2 bars(saves a bit of time, instead of looping around 4 bars), make sure the samples are set to drum ( no gate or loop ) and you can adjust the start points while the pattern is playing to get the tightest effect. then once you know your loop is tight, make the pattern as long as you want and you know it will loop right. oh yea quantize helps too .

yo so i should lay down a drum pattern first of the bpm of the sample? then lay down the sample?

Navek · Post by **Navek** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:27 am

Thanks Mike, haven't messed with the AMP SIM much yet - try that out soon! Been putting off getting Live for a while now, subconsciously savoring the anticipation in some sort of weird procrastination binge. Cheers!