going from an idea / sketch -> a complete song

[cartesia]

I'm still struggling..

I always come up with a loop of say 4 to 16 bars made out of various samples and synths I've programmed, and work incessantly on it - which is helping me learn heaps about production and get my skills up, - making my sound more pro...


but I never get around to arranging it into a complete song. . I probably could have finished a few by now otherwise.. - half the time it never goes beyond just a groove...

( I guess maybe I should take this as an indication that despite what I like listening to, as a producer I am more percussion/ tech-oriented than melodic??)

can anyone give any tips to motivate or trick myself into going from a loop to a full song?

for example, here are two of the loops ive started on in the last couple days (which production-quality wise are probably my best achievements so far) - the first I haven't done much to yet, as I only started it a few hours ago. . the second I made up mostly yesterday and it has a bit of synth action going on.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/173270956c3f8418/

http://www.zshare.net/audio/173273576908b942/

Any comments on the direction of the songs would be cool too

(set subs to maximum bass!)

[fauna]

hey mans,
the beats are cool - not what i do, but certainly in the realm of stuffs i listen to. so that's great. which also means, these are FINE as is. you don't need to keep reworking the reworks.
i think all you gotta do is make a second loop, based on the same ideas as either one of these, but change up the melody, or the key the samples are in, or that shifts the beat around, or includes an "important" sound to what you are trying to do. then make ANOTHER loop that you can use as yr intro, and another for the outro (for example).

but a solid way to go is to consider "variations on a theme" with the beats you've awready made: how can you take these and add (or subtract!) something, to add artistic effect. artistic intent.

cuz really that's what you wanna ask: where do you want these songs to lead? is there a middle part of yr song w/ just bird sounds and nuffin else? then you make a couple of beats that lead the listener there, drop that birdie one, and then lead the listener back out.

sorry i couldn't give you more to go on technically (stuff like key change, shift to using the relative minor chord of your key in the beats you've done, add drones, etc.) cuz i don't think that's what you need to fink about. i am guessing its more 'where does this beat lead'. you dig?

good beats tho, yo! hope this helps.
good luck.

[Dj Frantic]

Me personally, I just pretty much jam with stuff till ideas come together.

[PHeMoX]

Same here, but in general I don't really construct songs either... Definitely have to take the time to go there if I want to really make songs that have head, body and tail so to speak.

It's pretty difficult.

[ghost bazz]

I think throwin down in the arena for a couple rounds would be helpful. It makes you finish stuff, wether you're really really feeling it or not... which turns into great practice for seeing a track through from a collection of loops to a cohesive composition. It also exposes you to how other people work.

[PHeMoX]

Yeah, I totally agree. Even though I haven't joined in lately, the few times I did were massively interesting in terms of the learning experience.

I am going to join in on the battle fun soon. I've sold all my SPs, so for now I'm only going to mess with the samples with my MV-8800, probably keeping the results totally out of the battle zone as using a non-SP is not allowed.

[whyse0ne]

break downs... build ups...

Something I need to work on myself is changing up the drums.

Make two different but similiar main patterns (for this kind of genre). And then piece them together with some break down of the drums or take the pattern apart piece by piece and put it back together... just an idea.

[JayLost]

Same here, but in general I don't really construct songs either... Definitely have to take the time to go there if I want to really make songs that have head, body and tail so to speak.

It's pretty difficult.

oh hell yeah its all about song structure if you want it to really go anywhere has to be like a standard type structure for the type genre your making.-_-
but dope tracks though! i like the slow hiphop triphop zone out smoked out shit myself but good shit homie-_-

[Rob P]

Yo,those are pretty fresh!! I have the same problem too but those tracks are pretty solid on their own.

[Lopar-XL]

I'm in the same boat as far as trying to make a song. The funny thing is, I can more or less make a complete, or at least a partially complete, song in my head but when it comes down to actually composing and recording it, I'm stuck. Got a bunch of loops on my hard drive or sampler that have got no place to go. Perhaps you should just ease off trying to make songs out these loops and come back to them a few days later. Maybe you'll be inspired then. What you've got there sounds really good

[enossified]

Don't get so involved in "production" until you have a song. Instead of perfecting 16 bars to be dance floor ready, just use some generic sounds to compose the sections of the song and once you have a song...then it's time to tweak your sounds into shape.

Remember: a good song will still work regardless of the sounds used. The sounds are just the icing on the cake.

[drewzle]

those excerpts sound great man, really clean and crisp production. i really like the glitch one, those different twists and oscillations give it great movement

in terms of building up a track, i tend to slowly add layer after layer. it can get predictable that way, so i try to make my lead-ins a bit more surprising, and constantly have parameters changing to keep movement

[enossified]

I can make a complete song in my head but when it comes down to actually composing and recording it, I'm stuck.

Record yourself singing or humming the parts and then use that as a reference.