no drum machine can truly swing

getonthegoodfoot · Post by **getonthegoodfoot** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:05 pm

if you truly want that swing feel in a track you should just turn the quantize off completely. there is no drum machine that could ever give you a real swing sound. the element that makes it swing is the fact that the note/drum hit/whatever bounces off the meter. perhaps i'm being elitist because i'm a jazz saxaphonist as well as 404 user, but i really think the only way you can really swing on something like a 404 is by turning off the quantize and simply feeling the music.

?mark
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Dj Frantic · Post by **Dj Frantic** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:22 pm

I agree.

blast1 · Post by **blast1** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:42 pm

true...

PHeMoX · Post by **PHeMoX** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:52 pm

if you truly want that swing feel in a track you should just turn the quantize off completely.

Yeah, I agree as far as not using any type of (destructive) input quantize, the best swing you'll ever get is by doing it yourself in a fully 100% natural way...

there is no drum machine that could ever give you a real swing sound.

However when doing a non-swing type beat on say the MV-8800, it's still very possible to get a huge swing in there using the quantize settings you can tweak to just about anything.

So basically I do sort of disagree to some extent.

adru · Post by **adru** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:53 pm

i disagree-you can give a drum pattern any type of swing you want while using quantize-just depends on how you do it.i mean if your only using one individual sample for each peice of the drum kit at their precise start points,then yea,swing is gonna be lacking-you gotta resample them all a few times and put varying amounts of space in front of them,vary the quantize settings--then lay your chops un-quantized.you can actually get a better & much smoother ,consistent swing that way than with not quantizing,in my opinion.i do do it both ways though

PHeMoX · Post by **PHeMoX** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:06 pm

You're spot on about getting it sound consistent through quantize.

Also it depends a bit on how much swing you put into your beats just by playing it 'live' on the pads, as that's what will always be used as 'reference' for the quantize algorithms. Getting a perfect swing can be difficult when you play and record each individual drum sound separately into a track for this reason... let alone the fact that the swing of each sound has to complement the others.

Quantize for me is a huge help to get things sound right without having to play a million times to get that right swing in there. The MV really is a beast in this respect as you can tweak the heck out of the quantize settings.

I totally agree that it depends on how you make your beats in the first place though... sometimes to get things sound right, you'll have to play it differently with more swing. Even when using quantize later to get it to sound perfect.

blast1 · Post by **blast1** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:40 pm

[quote="adru"]i disagree-you can give a drum pattern any type of swing you want while using quantize-just depends on how you do it.i mean if your only using one individual sample for each peice of the drum kit at their precise start points,then yea,swing is gonna be lacking-you gotta resample them all a few times and put varying amounts of space in front of them,vary the quantize settings--then lay your chops un-quantized.you can actually get a better & much smoother ,consistent swing that way than with not quantizing,in my opinion.i do do it both ways though[/quote]

i hear you dru, an individual would still have to tweak isht up to get that swing, i think that some catz get it confused thinkin' that a ceratin drum machine can give you instant swing on the spot without goin' through the tweaks to achieve that swing...peace

adru · Post by **adru** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:57 pm

yea no doubt..and i was speaking of just the 404-an mpc really does have a completely different level of swing than the sps though...

and for real,i've been obsessed with swing lately-i honestly think its something that can make the difference between a good and amazing beat..i'm still tinkering with different techniques trying to find a completely ideal approach.
but to say flat out that "no drum machine has real swing"is saying that HUNDREDS of the best beats ever made have no real swing to them.sorry,but thats ridiculous.

tape smoke · Post by **tape smoke** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:17 pm

sp 505 has bad ass , track assignable swing.

DREWDANK · Post by **DREWDANK** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:33 pm

noooob question whats a swing?

eldwarfo · Post by **eldwarfo** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:49 pm

xdrewx wrote:noooob question whats a swing?

It's something that originated in 1930s jazz, or 'swing jazz'.

I suppose the best description of swing is 'music with feeling'. It's quite hard to define... sort of like 'groove'. Swing functions normally drop the note slightly ahead of the beat (creating a sort of rush/feeling of urgency, like in an upbeat piece) or slightly behind the beat (for that sort of 'laid back' feeling, popular in dub and reggae).

Your question would be better answered by just listening to some of the following: Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich, Papa Jo Jones, Clyde Stubblefield (James Brown's 'Funky Drummer'), Steve Gadd, John Bonham (Led Zep's drummer).

Also, The Roots' drummer - Questlove - has groove coming out his ears.

DREWDANK · Post by **DREWDANK** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:55 pm

just acctually purchased roots new album 2 days ago....i see what ya mean though thanks bro

yo-yo crunch · Post by **yo-yo crunch** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:43 pm

umm...you guys ever heard of roger lynn?

pretty sure the original mpc 60 and mpc 3000 (roger lynn editions) both have this "automatic swing" you're talking about...