ok
so i am really not inept and i can probably find this online if i do a search but...
can anybody break down some of the different drum progressions i.e.
blues, mamba, jungle, rock, etc...
i see these on a lot of drum machines and i am starting to get it but what makes a specific style just that? are there certain genres that use 2 kicks and three snares per bar? is it only the tempo? what would a jazz measure consist of, or a two step? i am not a trained musician but i wish i was. can anyone break down the breaks? please teach me!
calling all drummers
Moderator: TGN
calling all drummers
insert funny comment here.
http://soundcloud.com/jon-ill
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wax inspektor
- Awesome Member
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- Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:09 pm
- Location: Berlin
Yeah man me too please...
I watched a bunch of drum workshops on the tube... helps a bit plus good source for sampling.
I often thought about a drum workshop or sth. in here... but I guess even if people would like the idea nobody would join... just think about the glorious sp-mixtape
Maybe mfox can help us. He is new in here but the dude told me that he is a real drummer... so please teach us
Just listen listen to his TribuF joint @ myspace and you know what's up!
Are those live drums or samples mfox??? I was talking about that joint ...
Is there any website where I could check some drum patterns. I mean notes or sth. I wanna read patterns not hear them.... Links?
off t:
Have you guys ever heard of a midi-drumset? It looks like a electronic drumset but it's midi shit. Plug it into your sp and play the rare sounds. It was a special offer in a store far away from here. Only 85€ !!!
I didn't get a chance to grab one. I hate me for that. Yesterday I dreamed having one, seriously.
Playing your drumsamples on a drumset.
That's a wish a have for a loooooooooong time. Really...
Can electronic drumkits import own sounds?
I watched a bunch of drum workshops on the tube... helps a bit plus good source for sampling.
I often thought about a drum workshop or sth. in here... but I guess even if people would like the idea nobody would join... just think about the glorious sp-mixtape
Maybe mfox can help us. He is new in here but the dude told me that he is a real drummer... so please teach us
Just listen listen to his TribuF joint @ myspace and you know what's up!
Are those live drums or samples mfox??? I was talking about that joint ...
Is there any website where I could check some drum patterns. I mean notes or sth. I wanna read patterns not hear them....
Links?
off t:
Have you guys ever heard of a midi-drumset? It looks like a electronic drumset but it's midi shit. Plug it into your sp and play the rare sounds. It was a special offer in a store far away from here. Only 85€ !!!
I didn't get a chance to grab one. I hate me for that. Yesterday I dreamed having one, seriously.
Playing your drumsamples on a drumset.
That's a wish a have for a loooooooooong time. Really...
Can electronic drumkits import own sounds?
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crumbsucker
- Member
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 12:48 pm
- Location: Ljubljana
- Contact:
You can use battery VST(software sampler for drums) with your midi drum kit and change samples as much as you like... you also have different hardware sound modules that can all be used witH your midi drum kit.
...btw, I have the similar problem about the beats... I can play guitar, bass, keyboards (slowly) and than speed up the sequencer
.... but I can't play drums... I've tryed a couple of times but I just don't have the feeling and the swing... so I use grooveboxes and edit premade beat patterns.
The easyest way for me is to run a basic beat and put the sequencer to the rehearsal mode and than try to find some syncopated feeling and record that . I don't use drum loops from sample CD's- just midi.
Some weeks ago I bought an old (1988) AKAI XR-10 drum machine and it has many basic beats by genres and also some fill ins built in... and it can send midi signal to other rompler... if you want more modern drum sounds.
...btw, I have the similar problem about the beats... I can play guitar, bass, keyboards (slowly) and than speed up the sequencer
.... but I can't play drums... I've tryed a couple of times but I just don't have the feeling and the swing... so I use grooveboxes and edit premade beat patterns.
The easyest way for me is to run a basic beat and put the sequencer to the rehearsal mode and than try to find some syncopated feeling and record that . I don't use drum loops from sample CD's- just midi.
Some weeks ago I bought an old (1988) AKAI XR-10 drum machine and it has many basic beats by genres and also some fill ins built in... and it can send midi signal to other rompler... if you want more modern drum sounds.
ok... here we go. ima throw some terms at you that will hopefully make sense. in latin music n stuff like that they have what's called the clave. there's the clave instrument then there's the clave that im talkin bout which i think is what you guys are referring to as the snares when the rhythms are translated to kick. there's 3.2. clave then theres 2.3 clave then theres variations and brazilian claves n stuff it gets kinda hard to keep straight. i cant map out these on the forums but if you google them or somethin you'll find a better explanation.
in reggae it's more about how the beats are hit and the spaces in between the notes rather then the notes them selves. it's more of a layed back shuffle feel (swingin the beat) which kinda translates to early new orleans jazz (2 step) which pushes into bop then hard bop (tony williams with john coltrane... aka orgasmic). the roots of this goes to africa just like everything else and rhythms get even harder to keep straight unless you've lived there and can speak this drum language. depending on the area of africa that you are in... specific rhythms mean specific things so in a way it is very much a language on its own. hope this sorta helped and hope i didnt sound like too much of an idiot. peace
in reggae it's more about how the beats are hit and the spaces in between the notes rather then the notes them selves. it's more of a layed back shuffle feel (swingin the beat) which kinda translates to early new orleans jazz (2 step) which pushes into bop then hard bop (tony williams with john coltrane... aka orgasmic). the roots of this goes to africa just like everything else and rhythms get even harder to keep straight unless you've lived there and can speak this drum language. depending on the area of africa that you are in... specific rhythms mean specific things so in a way it is very much a language on its own. hope this sorta helped and hope i didnt sound like too much of an idiot. peace
and yo wax! thanks for the props sir. TrubuF is live drums with a microphope under my hat facing the bass drum. if you go to this link i have on my myspace to my reverbnation page ive got my very first sp recording it's called 'Q' the beat in the second part of the song is another one of these messed up Brazilian beats that if played at the right tempo sounds a little bit like stupid house music. i remember it took friggn forever to do cus i didnt understand the whole "quantize" consept yet. haha
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SaintElsewhere
- Member
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 8:24 am
I have a book, I think it's called Drummer's Survival Guide or something. (I'll post a link to it later) It has a list of basic beats for just about every style of music, and it comes with a cd of examples too... Really highly recomended. I play guitar mostly, but I'm learning to play just about everything else.
'To understand and be understood is to be free.' Daniel Johnston 'Go'
First: Triplets are counted "one and a, two and a, three and a, four and a" written like 1&a, 2&a, etc
Second: 16ths are counted "one e and a, two e and a, three e and a, four e and a" written 1e&a, 2e&a, etc etc
I can explain some stuff if you understand what I mean when I say 1, a, 2, a, 3, a, 4, a. So like for that, if that's with a triplet subdivision (1 & a) then what I just typed is a blues shuffle more or less. There can be variations on how to play that beat between the hi-hat, snare and bass but that general beat is a shuffle or blues.
For jazz, it's the hi-hat on 2, 4. Then the ride cymbal is 1, 2 a, 3, 4 a (again with triplet subdivision). Variations on where the snare is and probably no bass drum.
For disco and dance, it's very often an upbeat hi-hat, meaning the & of every beat (16th note subdivision). Put the kick on 1, 2, 3, 4. The snare on 2, 4. There's a disco or techno beat.
Tempo does have a lot to do with it. That previous beat will feel more techno-ish if played really fast. And a blues shuffle played really slow will feel like 6/8 time. 6/8 is counted 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
The clave beats are kinda weird to write out but the Bo Diddley beat is a 3:2 clave. Or the song "Iiiiiiiiiiiiii want candy!" has the 3:2 clave in it. Those are counted: 1 a (2) & (3) & 4. The numbers in parenthesis are just for reference and aren't part of the beat. Or if that's confusing, tap your foot on every one in this pattern while reading the numbers at a steady pace: 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 1 2 1 2 3 4. Then at the end go right back to the beginning. That's 3:2 clave.
Reggae's most distinctive characteristic is the bass drum on 2, 4. Where rock, pop, rap and almost everything else has the backbeat (2, 4) on the snare, reggae has the bass drum there. There's usually an upbeat hi-hat pattern. And also characteristically, there's nothing on the one.
Jazz has the backbeat on the hi-hat usually and the snare can be anywhere and is usually improvised or plays off the other instruments or melody.
That's probably enough to digest for now. Hope that was enlightening and not just more confusing. I've been playing drums for 10yrs and give lessons so feel free to ask me anything.
Second: 16ths are counted "one e and a, two e and a, three e and a, four e and a" written 1e&a, 2e&a, etc etc
I can explain some stuff if you understand what I mean when I say 1, a, 2, a, 3, a, 4, a. So like for that, if that's with a triplet subdivision (1 & a) then what I just typed is a blues shuffle more or less. There can be variations on how to play that beat between the hi-hat, snare and bass but that general beat is a shuffle or blues.
For jazz, it's the hi-hat on 2, 4. Then the ride cymbal is 1, 2 a, 3, 4 a (again with triplet subdivision). Variations on where the snare is and probably no bass drum.
For disco and dance, it's very often an upbeat hi-hat, meaning the & of every beat (16th note subdivision). Put the kick on 1, 2, 3, 4. The snare on 2, 4. There's a disco or techno beat.
Tempo does have a lot to do with it. That previous beat will feel more techno-ish if played really fast. And a blues shuffle played really slow will feel like 6/8 time. 6/8 is counted 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
The clave beats are kinda weird to write out but the Bo Diddley beat is a 3:2 clave. Or the song "Iiiiiiiiiiiiii want candy!" has the 3:2 clave in it. Those are counted: 1 a (2) & (3) & 4. The numbers in parenthesis are just for reference and aren't part of the beat. Or if that's confusing, tap your foot on every one in this pattern while reading the numbers at a steady pace: 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 1 2 1 2 3 4. Then at the end go right back to the beginning. That's 3:2 clave.
Reggae's most distinctive characteristic is the bass drum on 2, 4. Where rock, pop, rap and almost everything else has the backbeat (2, 4) on the snare, reggae has the bass drum there. There's usually an upbeat hi-hat pattern. And also characteristically, there's nothing on the one.
Jazz has the backbeat on the hi-hat usually and the snare can be anywhere and is usually improvised or plays off the other instruments or melody.
That's probably enough to digest for now. Hope that was enlightening and not just more confusing. I've been playing drums for 10yrs and give lessons so feel free to ask me anything.
that was great and i will probably need to read it a few more times but let me start with two questions.
triplets question; on a four count would one fall on 1, then "and a" fall on 3 and 4 respectively, so something like 1(2)34 ??
sixteenths question; what's the "e" mean or the "e and a" for that matter? i think it's just a faster count but don't quite get it.
thank you lotspoop, that is exactly what i was looking for. after i read this post a few more times i will probably have more questions if you don't mind.
triplets question; on a four count would one fall on 1, then "and a" fall on 3 and 4 respectively, so something like 1(2)34 ??
sixteenths question; what's the "e" mean or the "e and a" for that matter? i think it's just a faster count but don't quite get it.
thank you lotspoop, that is exactly what i was looking for. after i read this post a few more times i will probably have more questions if you don't mind.
insert funny comment here.
http://soundcloud.com/jon-ill
http://soundcloud.com/jon-ill
wait; for triplets do you mean 1(2,3,4),2(2,3,4)...?
insert funny comment here.
http://soundcloud.com/jon-ill
http://soundcloud.com/jon-ill
jbl wrote:wait; for triplets do you mean 1(2,3,4),2(2,3,4)...?
i always just count triplets as "tri-po-let-tri-po-let" with an accent on the "tri" and in jazz or any swung rhythm the "a" that lotspoop (alright! another drummer! woot!) was referring to is counted more as the "let" in tri-po-let opposed to an "a" in a 16th note rhythm (1e&a 2e&a)
so lets say in a standard swing... the ride would be played like this
"1-po-let-2-po-let-3-po-let-4po-let" but only play the bold markings
for a look at clave... watch anything on youtube involving Horacio Hernadez. he's a cuban native and a went to a clinic of his a few years back. everything we can do with our fingers on our sp's he can do with his feet on cowbells better while playing crazy shit over top with his hands.
Yeah "tri-po-let" is probably a better way to count them since it avoids the confusion of using the "&" and "a" that is also used for 16ths. Sorry about that.
Maybe this will help explain the jazz triplet thing I was trying to explain.
So setup a metronome to count triplets with an accent on 1. Then just play the top line of the following
| 1 - - 1 - 3 |
| - 2 3 - 2 - |
Or play the top line with your right hand on something loud and your left hand plays the bottom line on something quiet. Your right hand is playing the jazz ride pattern and you shouldn't hear the left hand much. No pauses anywhere. Just play 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3 etc steady and at a pace you can consistently do it at. By playing it with two hands and two different sounds you should hear a jazz ride pattern. Or hell since we all have samplers load in a ride cymbal and get your right hand to play that. The left hand can play the desk.
Hope that helps a little more.
Maybe this will help explain the jazz triplet thing I was trying to explain.
So setup a metronome to count triplets with an accent on 1. Then just play the top line of the following
| 1 - - 1 - 3 |
| - 2 3 - 2 - |
Or play the top line with your right hand on something loud and your left hand plays the bottom line on something quiet. Your right hand is playing the jazz ride pattern and you shouldn't hear the left hand much. No pauses anywhere. Just play 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3 etc steady and at a pace you can consistently do it at. By playing it with two hands and two different sounds you should hear a jazz ride pattern. Or hell since we all have samplers load in a ride cymbal and get your right hand to play that. The left hand can play the desk.
Hope that helps a little more.