Hey, I've just got an SP404, and read the manual, but still have some questions I'm sure long time users can answer.

Is there a sample size limit in the 404? I was thinking of putting a backing track in there as a full 4 minute sample, but it would not load. I could cut this up into verse, chorus and create a pattern of those smaller bits.

I have another unrelated question. Sometimes when I'm editing an effect, the screen shows the parameter name, but not the value - other times it shows the value, but I'm not sure when or why it shows one and not the other. It does not 'seem' to be consistent.

I am confused about how the 404 streams samples from a card. So I pretty much will never sample into the unit itself, I import .AIF's into it from my computer. I want to import into the C, D and E banks. The manual shows you how to sample into those banks. Can I load into the A + B banks and then move the samples into the card banks?

Basically I would like to have a full card and all banks full of samples, all of which I imported.

Thanks for any response on any of these questions.

SR

I think you should have managed a 4minute (stereo?) track - but probably not into banks A or B - they only have 16KB between them.
When you import into the card banks, you will need about half as much space on the card as the original aif file - the 404 compresses sample data about 50% (normal quality - maybe 75% lo-fi). So while the cards still in the computer, check the size of your files -

Remember to delete any aif files off the card that you've already imported into the pads. The 404 doesn't delete them for you and they aren't needed once they're in the sample banks.

The 404 doesn't really difference between on-board and card banks - it's the same procedure, you tap the bank button and then the pad and that's where it goes. For the last 4 card banks, you tap the bank button twice to make it flash.

You can load samples off the card into any bank.

You can swap samples between card and onboard banks or between any pad in any bank.

You can sample directly into card banks. The manual is simply assuming you don't have a card.

The display shows value when you adjust & after a timeout (it gets bored) defaults back to the name (or bpm, depends what mode its in).

Jim

Thanks for that speedy info!

So, if I'm going to put long samples of bedtracks in this, I should put one per bank, because the bank will have a limit. 8M in A & B, and ? in the others. Perhaps I'll test this out.

My trials so far have not worked. . I put a 2 minute sample into bank A, with no other samples in the machine (full memory), and the sample got automatically truncated and looped to a short 16 bar sample. Is there a limit that way?

I'm glad it treats the card banks like any other bank, essentially the card is extra memory that it reads directly from and that's a bonus for sure - no load times.

I'm not as excited about the compression of the samples. I don't believe this is mentioned anywhere in the manual (of course). I would rather that it played back 44.1/16 bit straight. Why oh why Roland? Memory is so cheap these days, and CF cards are cheap. . Why compress. This is likely why the timestretch in the 404 is one of the worst I've ever heard. If you alter the BPM on a KAosspad3, the sample will nicely change to fit, and you have to really jump a far bit of BPM before it degrades. I can't bear the sound of the 404 samples after a 4 BPM change - the artifacts are likely due to the 50% compression. Too bad.

Once again, thanks for the almost instant reply - you're not watching from my living room are you?

Scott

Banks or pads don't have a fixed share of memory.

The samples are limited by the free memory size - they aren't fixed per bank or per pad, but allocated as needed on a first come first served basis. When a file is imported the 404 compresses the audio into its internal data format in a special folder - either in the internal banks or on the same CF card.
On the card therefore, there has to be half as much free space remaining on the card as the import file takes. So, if there was 24KB free, the biggest file you can add on the card to import is 16KB - it requires 8KB for the 404's compressed version of the sample.

I haven't seen a file automatically truncate into a loop! It would be cool if it could.

Re the data compression - yes, odd that it isn't headlined in the specs. It isn't mp3, because I think that legally has to show the mp3 logo on the box and documents. Most probably it's Rolands own system called R-DAC. My old Roland VS-840 digital multitracker has R-DAC and the best quality, called MT1, isn't at all bad, and that compresses by 50% - so I'm guessing that's what the 404 uses. The good thing about R-DAC is it doesn't require to be decompressed before being mixed or processed by an effect until ready to go to the output - so it saves a lot of CPU power. But, I suppose it doesn't lend itself to timestretch because that involves splicing beats and it probably should be decompressed before you do that.

I really like the 404, and it's cheap - but a lot about it makes me think it's made from old product ideas & cpu code. The way stuff that would be in LCD menus are done using power-up key combinations makes me think it was originally meant to have an LCD with menu keys. The small internal memory and 1GB CF limit makes me the core o/s was designed 3 or 4 years ago, when even a 128GB card was considered big and cost quite a lot.
That said, all music tech manufacturers have always been really mean with installed memory. Like Akai rack samplers - you really had to buy extra RAM to get anything worthwhile into them, even when memory prices dropped to pocket money a few years ago.

Jim

I bought the 404 not to be an "all in one" sampler, but basically to be able to easily use loops in a live context, or bedtracks, without taking out a laptop. I also like it because it does this, and it's cheap.

I'm doing all my editing on a computer and then porting the loops to the 404, and it's really good for that basic purpose. I'm kinda shocked though when I look at the other features in this thing - If I had bought it expecting it to be a sampling drum machine for making beats, I would be taking it straight back where I bought it. I also have a Korg Electribe SX, which is essentially a 13 track sequencer style drum-machine. You can make beats on that thing faster than any drum-machine out there, and I've owned most of them over the years. However it's not really good for sampling bedtracks, or large libraries of loops - so I got the 404.

In that area, I actually think that 1G is generous. It will easily handle most of my sampling needs - and I can just throw in another CF card if I need more in the middle of a set - it's load time is not an issue (turning it off and on again kinda is. . ) I'm not sure why in this day and age they would bother with compression, so I think you are absolutely right, it's made of old code put together in a new form.

Certainly I do not find the buttons to be intuitive in any way. If it was designed with the user in mind, I'm sure it would be different - there would be a clearly labeled "Sample Select" button, instead of one named "Remain", whose function is most often selecting a sample. That to me says re-used code mapped onto a new button scheme.

The compression in it thankfully sounds usable, I would not use it for recording, but in a live context, it's certainly good enough - I can hear some bottom end in there. The old Akai's had very poor bottom end - and I always thought the Yamaha samplers had the best bottom end. . But even though I could get either of those cheap these days used - they weigh more than all my other live gear put together - at that point I think I would take out a laptop.