Newbie questions - sorry!

[tokenwelshman]

Hope somebody can take pity on a newbie who is struggling...

Okay, I've started by importing some WAV files into the SP-606. samples of a CR-78 drum machine, and I've created a nice drum pattern, four measures long. I thought I was recording different parts of the drum beat onto different tracks (kick and snare on one, toms on another, wood sound on a third), but the whole drum pattern now seems to sit on a single track, which is unexpected but nice. No idea how that happened?

Then I sampled some choral pads from a synth into another pad bank, tried recording onto a spare track, the recording went onto eight measures. I wasn't happy with what I did, so I erased the new track by going into real-time recording and holding down "erase". Now I have a drum pattern which is four measures of drums followed by four measures of silence. I've read other posts which indicate there's nothing that can be done about this.

So, next step, I want to somehow get that eight measure pattern into my PC so that I can chop off the redundant four measures at the end. I've read a few posts which talk about direct digital recording via USB. I can set my SP-606 as the default recording source. I can only do this while in USB Mass Storage mode. Then I exit out of mass storage, and try recording the pattern into my PC, but I don't seem to get any sound registering via the USB connection when I try recording.

Back in Mass Storage mode, I can see the files on the Compact Flash card but, apart from the original CR-78 samples in the root file, I can only see a load of .SPD files which are not usable on my PC. So, am I right in thinking that the pattern I have created on the SP-606 cannot be imported via USB into my PC for editing? It also seems that I cannot resample the whole pattern into another pad, so that I could then edit that combined sample to get rid of the final four measures.

I think my final resort is to connect the outputs of the SP-606 into the microphone socket of my PC, which I guess will result in a bit of unwanted noise, and record the drum pattern in this way for editing. I can then import the four measures of the drum pattern as a sample in its own right, and assign it to a single pad. Does that sound about right?

What are the best ways of getting samples / patterns / songs from the SP-606 into the PC? I have Kinetic 2 but I've only just started looking at this and cannot yet figure out how to link it to the SP-606... not yet anyway.

One more thing, when I have the SP-606 connected via USB to my PC, and also connected to my speakers, I get a dreadful whistling / whining noise, which only stops when I unplug the USB cable. Doesn't matter if I'm in Mass Storage mode or not. Anybody else found this problem?

If anybody can shed any light on any of these observations or problems I'd be really grateful. Sorry to write so much but I'm trying to explain how I've got to where I am, and what I've tried to do to fix it!

Thanks everybody...

[PHeMoX]

So, next step, I want to somehow get that eight measure pattern into my PC so that I can chop off the redundant four measures at the end. I've read a few posts which talk about direct digital recording via USB. I can set my SP-606 as the default recording source. I can only do this while in USB Mass Storage mode. Then I exit out of mass storage, and try recording the pattern into my PC, but I don't seem to get any sound registering via the USB connection when I try recording.

Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like this I'm afraid. You can not output audio from your SP-606 on to your PC through the USB. You can select it as recording device to record sounds that you playback from your PC instead, but not to your PC. The USB thing is mostly used for MIDI purposes, for example using the SP-606 as controller in P606 (or Kinetic2, Logic, Reason you name it).

For recording sound, you will have to use phono cables and use your PC or laptop's Line In port on your soundcard. You could theoretically use your Mic input, but be careful not to send in audio that's extremely loud because it could destroy your Mic in.

As for getting less measures, I haven't ran into that problem yet, so I don't quite know what I would do. I would probably start over new. I don't know of a way to export patterns that are usable in other programs...

One more thing, when I have the SP-606 connected via USB to my PC, and also connected to my speakers, I get a dreadful whistling / whining noise, which only stops when I unplug the USB cable. Doesn't matter if I'm in Mass Storage mode or not. Anybody else found this problem?

My SP-606 is continuously connected through USB with my PC, even though I don't use the USB all the time. I don't have any noise problems. Perhaps your USB cable is broken? Does the noise still go on when the speakers are disconnected from your SP-606?

It can also be that you have to change settings in Windows (or whatever OS you run) so that the SP-606 isn't the recording device anymore or perhaps you should check the volume panel in Windows, it might output loud noise because of that.

Your speakers are connected through digital cables on the SP-606 digital out?

I can then import the four measures of the drum pattern as a sample in its own right, and assign it to a single pad. Does that sound about right?

Yeah, you could do that, with a bit of luck you'll be able to get a looping sample out of it.

[tokenwelshman]

Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like this I'm afraid. You can not output audio from your SP-606 on to your PC through the USB. You can select it as recording device to record sounds that you playback from your PC instead, but not to your PC. The USB thing is mostly used for MIDI purposes, for example using the SP-606 as controller in P606 (or Kinetic2, Logic, Reason you name it).

Right. I've misunderstood the posts I've seen on this subject, which gave the impression you could set things up so that the USB became an audio input to the PC. (If you search this forum with the term "USB Input" you'll probably find the posts I've read...)

For recording sound, you will have to use phono cables and use your PC or laptop's Line In port on your soundcard. You could theoretically use your Mic input, but be careful not to send in audio that's extremely loud because it could destroy your Mic in.

Presumably the Line In is hidden in the guts of my laptop? The only input I can see is the Mic.

Is this why some of you run a 606 and a 404 together? I've started thinking if I had something else alongside the 606, I could run samples from one to the other and not have these problems.

As for getting less measures, I haven't ran into that problem yet, so I don't quite know what I would do. I would probably start over new. I don't know of a way to export patterns that are usable in other programs...

I think I agree on this! Having said this... if I have a basic drum pattern, which I want to use throughout a song, but with different melodic parts alongside, it sounds like I would have to create the drum part from scratch for each element of the song? Say I have a pattern for the intro, a pattern for the verse, a pattern for the chorus, etc... sounds like I can't create the drum pattern for the intro and then copy it straight into the other patterns?

My SP-606 is continuously connected through USB with my PC, even though I don't use the USB all the time. I don't have any noise problems. Perhaps your USB cable is broken? Does the noise still go on when the speakers are disconnected from your SP-606?

Interesting. I have a new, longer USB cable on order so this will test whether it's a cable issue. No, the noise stops either when the SP-606 is disconnected from my PC, or when it is disconnected from my speakers / mixer.

It can also be that you have to change settings in Windows (or whatever OS you run) so that the SP-606 isn't the recording device anymore or perhaps you should check the volume panel in Windows, it might output loud noise because of that.

I'm on Windows Vista. The whining noise has been happening whenever I have connected via USB and regardless of whether I had set the SP-606 as the recording device or not. Very strange.

Your speakers are connected through digital cables on the SP-606 digital out?

No, using normal (?) audio cables from the L and R output sockets next to the Phones socket. The only connection to the PC is via the USB cable, everything else goes to my speakers.

PHeMoX, thank you so much for your responses, I kinda knew you would help out based on your other posts here.

[PHeMoX]

if I have a basic drum pattern, which I want to use throughout a song, but with different melodic parts alongside, it sounds like I would have to create the drum part from scratch for each element of the song? Say I have a pattern for the intro, a pattern for the verse, a pattern for the chorus, etc... sounds like I can't create the drum pattern for the intro and then copy it straight into the other patterns?

Well, what I usually do is copy patterns and then edit them and later on use song mode to play them back in the order I want them too. It's actually a really powerful way of making songs, because you can make intro's, verses, choruses and so on this way.

In a few steps, this is what you must do;

Okey, lets assume you've got a verse pattern made and it's currently selected / opened (as in if you press play it will play that one).

Now what you do is press [F2] (Edit) then you come in the Micro | Swing | Name | menu, there you'll have to press [Func] + [F2] (Copy) and that will get you in the Pattern Copy screen.

Select which Pattern you would like to copy where to using the dial and arrow / cursor keys and press [F3] (Execute).

Now you have a pattern copied to two places, repeat the process a few more times if you want to have patterns where you mute some tracks for some extra variation. ( To save muted tracks, open your pattern, press [F2] (Edit) and select the tracks you want to have muted in that screen. Pretty useful stuff for making an intro out of a pattern, you can unmute those tracks in another copy of that pattern and build your song this way.

Obviously, after having copied your base pattern a few times, you can also choose one and go into Microscope editing and remove the drums you had already on that particular pattern and add different ones for a chorus in your song.

What you're doing is making all the parts of the song starting from these copies, it's up to you how much you want to change them up, later you'll use the Song Mode feature to make the SP-606 play the patterns in the correct order, so it doesn't matter if Pattern 55 is the outro and Pattern 56 is the intro or chorus.

Okey, well, I'll write down more precisely what I do a bit later, but lets assume you've got some copies made and saved some track mutes on them so you can use them for the intro of your song.

I usually do something like this for that particular 'base' pattern I make copies of, but there probably are a thousand ways of doing this;

(Pattern 55; )
Track 1: Hit-hats (for example)
Track 2: Baseline
Track 3: Melody Sample stuff
Track 4: Complete drums

Well, you can imagine it would work quite nicely as intro when you start this pattern with Track 3 and 4 muted. (In practice this would mean, Pattern 56 would be a copy of this Pattern 55 and has Track 3 and 4 muted & saved, Pattern 57 might only have Track 3 muted or so and Pattern 55 kicks in after that with nothing muted. )

Anyways, Song Mode works like this; On the Sequencer area on your SP-606 press [Song] and select an Empty Song project there using the Dial then press the [Record] button and start adding Patterns. You can use [List] to find for example pattern 55 and by pressing [select] it will save that pattern as the first one and it will ask you for the next pattern now.

Again, after having pressed [select] it will ask for the next one and so on and so forth. If you are done adding patterns to your song, just hit [stop] on the Sequencer area on your SP-606 and you've got your Song ready.

I've misunderstood the posts I've seen on this subject, which gave the impression you could set things up so that the USB became an audio input to the PC.

I have tried this, but did not succeed, perhaps there is a way to do this though. Anyways, yeah, if you don't have a Line In input you can use your Mic input also to record into your PC, just always remember to keep the volume output of the SP-606 not at maximum as it might damage your Mic input.

It should be fairly easy to find your PC's line input as it's just another input usually next to your Mic and Audio outputs on your PC, but I don't know what kind of PC you have, so it's possible that you don't have any.

No, the noise stops either when the SP-606 is disconnected from my PC, or when it is disconnected from my speakers / mixer.

Mmm, then it might be interference caused by other devices standing close to your SP-606 or something. For example a PC monitor. But I don't really know, it could be anything really.

No, using normal (?) audio cables from the L and R output sockets next to the Phones socket. The only connection to the PC is via the USB cable, everything else goes to my speakers.

Oww, I see, no that's also a good way. But as said, as far as I know it's not possible to output the audio through USB, but perhaps I'm missing something here myself.

PHeMoX, thank you so much for your responses, I kinda knew you would help out based on your other posts here.

You're welcome man.

[606man]

Hows it going guys - I don't get a chance to come to the forums much these days as they are blocked at work and I have to stuff around beating firewalls to get on. But this one was worth the effort, as I hate seeing people miss out on 606 features!!!

You CAN, in fact, record your patterns to your computer through USB. It's actually really simple.

1 - make sure your USB audio mode is set to MIX [in the menu].

2 - make sure your audio editor is set to record.

3 - make sure the cable is plugged in.

4 - press play on the 606.

done. digital recording through USB!

Cheers guys keep up the good work.

[606man]

Ohh - I forgot - you MUST have the 606 set up as the soundcard for the computer! And have it selected as the input hardware for you audio editor!

Think about it - as far as using it as a 'regular' soundcard, it's exactly the same as an Edirol equivalent. The issue is not getting audio down the USB cable, it's getting INTERNAL udio down the cable. This is why you must set the mode to 'MIX' on the 606, so it transmits the data from the internal engine as WELL as the audio inputs!

I miss this place.

[drewzle]

he's back!!

or is it a ghost?!

[606man]

I may yet be back properly this time man - we have a new comp admin at school that I may be able to cajole....

ME: "yo, nerdboy, unblock this site. So I can POST; not just so I can read it"..

NERDBOY: "Sir, Yes Sir"... etc. hehe.

[PHeMoX]

The issue is not getting audio down the USB cable, it's getting INTERNAL udio down the cable. This is why you must set the mode to 'MIX' on the 606, so it transmits the data from the internal engine as WELL as the audio inputs!

Aah, thanks for explaining, as that was the step I totally missed, hence why I never got it to work.

How about the measure problem earlier mentioned, any tricks to deal with that?

Welcome back man.

[606man]

Thanks man - it's great to be back Everything that contains "sp-forums" in the URL is now completely unblocked here at school. Like I said to the admin, a school is supposed to be educational, and there is NO better place to learn about sampling than this site! And kids these days DO want to learn about sampling! Yay!

Anyway, back to the actual thread. I'll have a closer look now while I'm having my morning coffee...

[606man]

OK, here we go..

“the whole drum pattern now seems to sit on a single track, which is unexpected but nice. No idea how that happened?”

The 606 sequencer works the same way as (most) of the other SP sequencers, in most respects. It’s designed to enable ideas to become patterns very quickly. Therefore it will always record onto the same track in the sequencer unless you actually make it record to another track. Like DJ Frantic always says, there’s actually no need for multiple tracks in most situations…

“Then I sampled some choral pads from a synth into another pad bank, tried recording onto a spare track, the recording went onto eight measures.”

Hmmm – in order for the new track to be eight measures, you must have set the length to eight measures before starting. This is fine, but it’s also restrictive because on SP’s there is, unfortunately, no undo. Thus, as your new track is eight measures long, your whole pattern is now eight measures long. Nothing to be done but record the drums out and put them back in to the 606 via the chopper. More on this in a tick.

“I've read a few posts which talk about direct digital recording via USB. I can set my SP-606 as the default recording source. I can only do this while in USB Mass Storage mode.”

Something’s gone pear-shaped here. Mass Storage mode is only for transferring files, not recording. Make sure you are NOT in Mass Storage mode. You need to be in ‘regular’ mode, with the USB Audio [in the menu] set to ‘Mix’. This transmits audio from within the 606 as well as from the audio inputs on the 606 down the USB cable. The 606 must be set up as the soundcard for your computer for this to work.

“So, am I right in thinking that the pattern I have created on the SP-606 cannot be imported via USB into my PC for editing? It also seems that I cannot resample the whole pattern into another pad, so that I could then edit that combined sample to get rid of the final four measures.
”
Yes, you are right in that you cannot import/export patterns. This is an oversight on Roland’s part, and the first disappointment I had with this machine. All is not lost though, as you can still RECORD your pattern via USB.

“I think my final resort is to connect the outputs of the SP-606 into the microphone socket of my PC, which I guess will result in a bit of unwanted noise, and record the drum pattern in this way for editing. I can then import the four measures of the drum pattern as a sample in its own right, and assign it to a single pad. Does that sound about right? “

That’s right, except you would not want to record through the mic input on your PC. Terribly noisy. If you can get the USB thing to work, which I think you will, you can do this task without the worry of any additional noise colouring the signal. Now, when you do get the pattern trimmed up and back on the 606, load it into the chopper. If it's a drum pattern, you can slice the patten across the pads, and play it back at different speeds, without altering the pitch, MPC-style. This is better than timestretch if you need to change the BPM a lot, such as for live playing. If you don't need to change the tempo, ignore this bit..

“One more thing, when I have the SP-606 connected via USB to my PC, and also connected to my speakers, I get a dreadful whistling / whining noise, which only stops when I unplug the USB cable. Doesn't matter if I'm in Mass Storage mode or not. Anybody else found this problem?”

I have come across this problem myself, as have several people I know. It always turns out to be something to do with either 1: bad cables or 2: noisy PC motherboard. If it’s the former you just need new cables. If it’s the latter then it’s a new PC. Doh.

“Thanks everybody...”

Don’t mention it.

[PHeMoX]

Hey 606man, do you think that buying a new soundcard instead of buying a completely new PC would solve the issue as well or did you have a separate soundcard in your PC whilst having this problem?

Anyways, as said I never had this problem, but I'm just curious, as buying a new PC can be a very expensive issue and buying just a separate soundcard obviously is far cheaper.

Like DJ Frantic always says, there’s actually no need for multiple tracks in most situations…

I always looked at it as a luxury anyway, but I do use the separate tracks a lot. Just personal preference, but I have to admit, the undo function on the SP-606 is definitely powerful enough to get things right on only one track and if you want to make a copy (of your pattern) before doing more difficult stuff it's as easy as pressing a button.

[606man]

Yeah, I thought that too, until I changed PC's and the noise just vanished! With my old PC (an Acer, if that matters) it didn't matter which soundcard was plugged in, there was always this 'electronic speaking' noise underlying everything. It didn't actually get recorded into anything, but it made monitoring a pain in the arse. In fact I didn't even know there was a problem until I got my monitors! HiFi speakers are great in some respects - they hide noise...hehe.

So, I thought it must have been a soundcard issue, as the UA20 I use a lot only has RCA/1/8" outs to monitor with. So I set up the 606 as a soundcard, as it has 'proper' connections. No better. So I tried a mate's expensive MOTU interface. Still the same problem. I gave up.

Then, as a matter of course, I got a new PC. Suddenly the noise was no longer there. At all. With any soundcard. So, it was definitely a PC issue. When this was being discussed on this board earlier, one of the PC experts (maybe iG9?) said it was a common PC problem, and one reason why Macs are preferred by a lot of pros.

Moral of the story? take a soundcard (and some headphones) with you if you are intending to stick with PC's. If there's a noisy mother board you will hear it loud and clear.

[Euclid Ov Oåklånd]

Nice to see you 606man.

[606man]

Why thank-you good Doctor; it's nice to be seen Problem solved for good now - I'm back

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaaa