What's the point?

[zindan]

sorry i need more coffee....

i meant to say:

I'm sure the industry has just as many genius's as it does fuck-up all the way from the bottom to the top.

as in.... even among the industry elite, theres some people faking it till they make it....

what really pisses me off is douchebags like kanye west saying they're geniuses when they pay 50 people per album to produce the music and write the lyrics.
look up the life of pablo on wikipedia and scroll down. you'll be amazed.

[l i f]

What is the point?

'in search of the new' may be somewhat of a driving force; but if that is the only motivation to create, then the inevitable result may be PostModernEnnui.. a debilitating condition which may at best leave you feeling that you've painted yourself into a corner, at worst, that you will not be able to produce anything at all because it's all been fucking done before.

http://ihatemusic.noquam.com/

Sidenote: on the term 'amateur', I dislike that this word carries negative or derogatory connotations. The word has its roots in the French meaning "one who loves".
Artists create with the tools that they have. You can hear in anyone's music if they really love what they're doing, regardless of genre or equipment.

[Gabanoise_Records]

But let's face it, there is only so much one can add to the form, which doesn't have to be a bad thing since personally I'm fine listening to the same old rap albums. To my logic it follows that there are just so many tricks one is going to do with their equipment to make music of that specific genre. And I'd agree with a previous poster that sample based music has less wiggle room than other types music. Why else would you see vintage and new MPCs, vintage SPs, and vintage and new drum machines in the studios of modern pro hip hop acts? Why else would the vintage gear market be exploding the way it is? It's not because hip hop people are finding new ways to use old gear and they have to snatch it up before someone else can get it and steal their ideas.

I understand how uneasy you can feel when you observe people in their artistic endeavours relishing the past to the point where forgery becomes a goal. Any form of art has their forgers and forgery is an art in itself and may lead to great creativity as before finding your own voice you mimick someone else's. But as some said it is just about having fun out of the wealth of information you can find on how it was, it is and it will be done. No point of competing one against the other just to gain the biggest number of followers. As Smudge said the SP Forum users are not trendsetters and more of a community but could they become more : be critical of those "connected" to the industry and of themselves. To weight on the so-called future of HipHop and keep our aim of listening to good music are we ready to destroy our idols instead of nesting in their decaying statues ? It seems completely anecdotical but once Chuck D of Public Enemy said rap is the CNN of the ghetto and there we have Kendrick Lamaar granted a Pulitzer Prize for the way he grasped the reality of the life of Afro-americans. Let's be honest. It just says the lyrics, the flow were great, the household name, the concept that is Kendrick Lamaar made it to the prize. For the instrumentals used... no real praises. As for Bob Dylan granted a Nobel Prize of literature. It was for his lyrics. Could an instrumental album gain that same achievement ? I doubt it. Some of you even are ready to foray in dancehall music to get recognized at last for moving feets. The revolution won't be LoFi or neo-boombap. It starts by retaking ears and eyes to those that are putting them in hypnosis. You can take advantage of the new distribution platforms but you soon realize that this audience that is your target is scattered, indefinite or maybe too definite. You don't want to be listened to by let's say a youngster white male or a youngster black female. You want to be listened to by the masses, get their attention not sedate them, get them to discuss, exchange ideas. If it is not your goal then keep your sonoferous leisures a call and response game boring enough to relinquish it to video games. The whole industry of musical equipment is ready to delve their clutches in your wallets and analog equipment scalpers also with their sweet deals to complete your disguisements. The struggle is still going on, it morphed. Show yourself you can adapt and bring solutions and ideas either in form, in content or initiatives other than giving too much ear to that humdrum motto that nothing changed so we can use the same martial art techniques used 20 or 30 years ago. I tried also to touch that problem here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25166. I couldn't find what it was I really wanted to speak about : engagement, commitment, militantism maybe in the form itself. But look even today the word of "engagement" is correlated to money earnings. It is a "double language" that is killing creativity, yours and mine.

(my tweet recollects also reactions on reddit. https://twitter.com/metaafrica/status/9 ... 7226728448)

One thing I can say about DJing for strippers, and you guys might find this interesting considering the sub-topic: the girls that danced to standard hip hop made a ton more money and were much hotter than the girls that danced to the indie lo-fi stuff. I don't know what it was. The standard hip hop girls would get their hair done, work out, fake boobs, lips etc. Not the lo-fi indie girls. Most of them were fatties with half finished tattoos for the most part. I was there to make money, so I noticed. LOL

One question Smudge. Do you know any reason for the disappearing of all those thin, muscle toned, fitness-loving playmates that used to be in the late 80s early 90s hiphop videos ?

[Sharris]

You guys have a way with words, a lot of great points as well as amazing artist & album mentions. Great read. I never knew amateur means one who loves. It makes so much sense.

I think 1 issue (I could be wrong) is when you don’t like the music, when you don’t feel the music, you’re not going to look deeper. You’re not going to look for more artists and songs of that genre and you’re not going to listen intensely to the music. If I hear a song I’m not feeling, I listen to something else. When I hear a song I’m feeling, I’m listening intensely, feeling it in my soul & everytime I listen to that same song I hear new & amazing things in it. I also look for other artists and songs of that "genre"

So if SMUDGE isn't a fan, he isn't gonna REALLY listen or dig deep to find more of it.

Not everyone loves hip hop. Totally fine. But if you're not a fan how do you have any knowledge of it? I know SMUDGE is a fan of some hip hop & has his own definition of what hip hop is, which I think is the other issue. We can show him all kinds of music that we consider hip hop, but in SMUDGE's eyes, if it isn't 4/4 & made for rapping it isn't hip hop. & if it DOES fit his definition of hip hop, well that's just plain ole hip hop. Nothing new about it.

I also notice the older I get, I still love music from my youth the most. Don't get me wrong tho, a lot of great new music, especially hip hop out there. But there is a lot of new music that I have a hard time understanding. Yet I know with art, people are always pushing boundaries. There are no rules. And when almost everything has already been done & said, in order to be different things are just getting weirder & weirder. So I can understand in a way why some of the older generation doesn't like new hip hop...or doesn't consider it hip hop at all.

[Sharris]

My post above is such a small aspect of this discussion, I'm just trying to understand where Smudge might be coming from (& I could be wrong in my assumptions).

& I apologize Smudge for calling you Smudge in your pants.

My first name starts with S and my last name starts with Hart. A while back I worked at this office & the email address they assigned me with started with fucking SHART. I should know how it feels, that sucked

[zindan]

i think fudge is too pussy to reply

[Gabanoise_Records]

Damned ! I think he's gone for good. He didn't finish his story. Everybody can go back to polish or unpolish their tracks. I'm still wandering if we had the same ideas about the " form " (and I ain't talking about ladies ((: Next time Zendan, please, could you filter more your tracks than the flow of newbies into the forum especially those that are ready to explain themselves on their views. What is it to immoderately moderate that forum you're doing it for every post... Alright you win like every time. You've been on that forum for so long you couldn't read this because it wasn't there when you registered : " You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “SP-FORUMS” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “SP-FORUMS” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. "

[zindan]

Damned ! I think he's gone for good. He didn't finish his story. Everybody can go back to polish or unpolish their tracks. I'm still wandering if we had the same ideas about the " form " (and I ain't talking about ladies ((: Next time Zendan, please, could you filter more your tracks than the flow of newbies into the forum especially those that are ready to explain themselves on their views. What is it to immoderately moderate that forum you're doing it for every post... Alright you win like every time. You've been on that forum for so long you couldn't read this because it wasn't there when you registered : " You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “SP-FORUMS” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “SP-FORUMS” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. "

dude, are you fucking kidding me?? did you not read what Crane said?

I did not mean to offend you on a personal level by calling you a junkie bitch as you have admitted to being a junkie and you are a little bitch.

If I was trying to attack you on a personal level I would of told you to quit jacking off in your dead moms panties.

Also, not sure how my previous post makes me "stuck up". I'm here to contribute, you're here to ruin a good forum.

Didn't you say you were done with this forum like three months ago?

Feel free to call me a cunt or whatever, my piece has been said and I will go back to ignoring your "I need attention" needy bullshit.

On a serious tip, you should probably get tested cause I think your whore ass mom gave me HIV and I know you were fucking her to.

Da Crane.

literally all i said to OP was a sarcastic remark: "your ears don't work"

ANYONE THAT TAKES THIS SERIOUSLY IS A LITTLE BITCH

[Gabanoise_Records]

It can go eternally Zendan. You're that heroic victim amongst liers telling the one and only circumstantial truth.

honestly this forum is so full of losers, hypocrites, assholes, and no talent fucking numb skulls (or all of the above) it's a fucking joke. i feel sorry for the decent people and talented people on this forum that have to witness the garbage in here.

so much talk. nothing to back it up.

You're never the one that started it... but look at us. Look good because every user in that forum is a copyright criminal. You think you're trespassing more than all of us by filling posts with dirty words. That's the reason you earned more respect than all of us ? I heard your music, I've seen your videos. Your social network marketing modus operandi could be as you're a skater... somehow bringing a punk ethic to a diy community... that used to be labeled "Black punk" when discovered... ANTAGONIZING ! Great idea but when it comes to this

i never replied to some shit i never read? so i replied.
dude, i'm really sorry you have a big fat cock stuck up your ass, but you don't have to take it out on me, man. i know it hurts. i know your butt hurts. try not to take it out on other people okay? take it easy.

the whole thread is here viewtopic.php?p=167950#p167950

And when I happily tune in to my Netizen Twitter Band Producer Broadcast Network for my dose of music, laughter and information I get to read this https://twitter.com/xJKbeats/status/1047522001777299459

Either you're a marketing genius and about to work at NASA for the next Pioneer mission especially on those gold engravings of your upcoming firy tracks... or somebody that took us all hostage, demeaning us and surveiling every of our opinions and making us a bad e-reputation. I left this question float vaguely in my mind until I decided to change it by looking at an episode of the Twilight Zone from the 60s and it happened to be the Dead Man's Shoes episode where a mobster that got murdered possess the mind and body of the bum that stole his shoes from his cadaver. And again those words of Smudge came back to my mind.

But let's face it, there is only so much one can add to the form, which doesn't have to be a bad thing since personally I'm fine listening to the same old rap albums. To my logic it follows that there are just so many tricks one is going to do with their equipment to make music of that specific genre. And I'd agree with a previous poster that sample based music has less wiggle room than other types music.

Could we be possessed by those machines we're using ? Is HipHop dead and reborn through our vintage obsessions to haunt and own us as we're not only copyright criminals but biting styles from times ago ? And also what style of HipHop is possessing you Zendan ?

That's right. The question begins by what style for the reason HipHop started in 1974. The first era was a one of musicians for the MCs had to hire a whole band to create their instrumentals. It persisted through acts like the Roots or even Dr Dre sampling musicians replaying their parts in songs. J Dilla was part of the Soulquarians collective. Since the industry crackdown on copyrighted sample based music, the boombap style seemed to have less "wiggle" than other style but one style doesn't make a whole genre. HipHop has gone through many transformations at numerous levels and it makes its wealth to be able to draw inspiration from those different phases. So as HipHop could be a sample based music and also comply with the copyright laws thanks to southern producers we can all agree that Smudge didn't have a vision as a whole of the HipHop producing phenomenon. Which sends me to an almost forgotten section of the forum : the library.

There's a whole market for drumkits and it surely cannot be seen on the forum for the reason not only that reverence is shown by some to the founders of the Boombap style through that act of defiance that is sampling copyrighted material but also because the battles absorbed most of the energy it requires. It takes to dig, to collect samples, surely even more to generate them and finally to make them available or use them. It is worth the effort for some like Sharris.

I also enjoy sampling myself playing instruments or jamming out on a keyboard, then taking it further by manipulating the samples. Still sample based....even if it's sampling myself at times (off topic).

Unfortunately LoFi is becoming more and more a dirty word and doesn't reflect the abstraction that some are developing in their instrumentals. In the battle between the MC and the DJ now producer, that man versus the machine battle, who would have thought that producers would multiply to the point where we can ask ourselves what could be their natural predator. Someone like Zendan, in a constant agressive stance, or like Smudge, judgemental to the contempt, or also rules laid by the founders and heroes of the boombap era, or maybe the number of followers and views ? What is authenticity in this century governed by forgery ? My answer stays the same as in the previous post, it is time to go beyond the emotion and search how to carry a message, a real message. Yes Zendan why won't you rap lyrics inspired by your most incidiary posts on your own beats. Who knows ? In this forum of strange energies lurking you could become a well-known ghostwriter. How come could you hate lyrics like ... ?

"Cause the bang-bang, buck-buck, boom-boom, pow-pow
Used to be a trick [but bitch - how ya like me know]
Cause the Ak-40 dick hold a 50 clip
And I'll shoot till it's empty bitch
That's how you got filthy rich"

[zindan]

@gabanoise records

tl;dr

all i'm gonna say is people do provoke me constantly on this forum
i'm not the only one talking shit
sick of people singling me out
when people provoke me i go off
then people single me out
it's stupid as fuck


also going to say this
my opinion is my opinion
what i say on this forum is my opinion
my opinion is not fact
it is opinion
my opinion is not true
it is opinion
my opinion is mine
not yours
you do not have to agree with my opinion
i am not telling you to agree with my opinion
i am simply telling you what it is
my opinion is not better than yours
nor is it worse
it is just an opinion
i am not better than you nor do i think i am
but i am not worse


people don't understand that others can have different views and you don't have to take it so harsh

all i said was a sarcastic remark "your ears don't work" then someone fucking flamed me and yes i went off and said some shit.

[Gabanoise_Records]

Let's go back in time... in music ! https://youtu.be/P8-9mY-JACM
De La Musique S'il Vous Plait Maestro !

[General_Giraffe]

Lol that Twitter thread tho

https://twitter.com/xJKbeats/status/1047522001777299459

[Danswift]

And when I happily tune in to my Netizen Twitter Band Producer Broadcast Network for my dose of music, laughter and information I get to read this


https://twitter.com/xJKbeats/status/1047522001777299459

Wow..just wow..

[zindan]

And when I happily tune in to my Netizen Twitter Band Producer Broadcast Network for my dose of music, laughter and information I get to read this


https://twitter.com/xJKbeats/status/1047522001777299459

Wow..just wow..

wow just wow no one saw what he said to provoke me.

[zindan]

so what happened is this (i'm sorry i deleted my tweets bc i was getting flamed/spammed in my inbox so that's a bitch but i'm going to be completely honest)

these are real quotes
xJk:"People can complain all day about Lofi producers I don't give a fuck. I'll still be making my dirty beats and minding my own business"

i'm paraphrasing this
zendan:"lofi isn't a genre, this is a stupid post"

xJk: "at least I don't send snapchats to people of heroin lmao zendan you're literally trash"

zendan: "you're a poser, you make beats in a daw then do bullshit to make it sound like you made it with hardware, you're fake, and your beats suck"
"you're talking shit about stuff from 2 years ago when i'm clean now and you can't even come up with a logical argument you're just talking shit"

xJk: "lmao zendan I know it hurts that you're a piece of shit but maybe you'll realize it one day"
"you just came at me and expected me not to respond? you act like this to everyone like you're superior when you're trash"



so i literally said some valid points, and he was just tearing me down with personal insults, talking shit like a child

thanks everyone for assuming that i'm always the evil one again, though. you are all so consistently demonizing and ostracizing me. great job everyone. proud of you.