fletcher munson curve indicates a shift of the frequency curve
when you adjust volume gain. this makes pre mastering, mixing
and production
seem like a never ending battle against bad levels popping out of
nowhere when musicians try to master or post produce their own work .
without knowledge of the direct correlation regarding volume and the
fletcher munson curves.

so an idea i came up with after i forgot 300 hz cranked
up on my EQ going (to speakers).

I mixed the session like that, with th e 300 hz cranked
on the amp. I eq'd the session as normally would. to make it sound
normal. I ususlly go safe, because it's better then sorry when you
mix. other wise, if you left it sounding how it sounds OK. lots
of shit will change when you start boosting the mix down.. an example
of safe mixing at medium level would be turning your vocals down
1-3 db in the mix, now depending on how loud you are mixing will
obviously be distorted in some way from the nature of the fletcher
munson curves. the safe mix will help, somehow magicly the vocals
become clear and crisp again, because the whole wave is now enriched
with a totally different frequency band. if you think about it,
chronilogically, the curve would look like a wiggle worm as you
turn up and down the signal level while battling to flatten the
curve on your own. other wise it will just double, the same how
an RIAA headphone chip will curve your signal, and without treating
the signal every time to balance you curve back you will end up
with some problems down the line, I think it's probably fixable
2 bounces down the line. with isolater.

I found just this year (embarrased)( 10 years audio nerd) how a LPF filter works.
not shure why i always ignored it, i thought it was a techno effect
or something, so I used it now and and I'm not being killed by
fletcher munson anymore.

back to the amp mistake with the eq.

I mixed the session with the 300 hz cranked and then amped the
mixdown 10 db to match soundcloud and youtube loudness. it sounded
the same as usual, I went to do the 300 hz cut to process the
normalized song. but looked at the amp and noticed I left that
band cranked. so I put it flat . and Yo. I DIDN'T NEED TO
PROCESS THE FILE because it was mixed with the custom eq curve.

so you can try this too.
so there you have it, another little rant about how trial and
error might actually get you somewhere (eventually) or learn
and practice.

Im not ranting on your guys volume or mixing because im always
amazed by sp-forums goood sound.

Biggups for the insight

A simplified description would be appreciated.
Adjusting volumes affects EQ- does this tend to be 300Hz o r is than number just because that is what you had your external EQ boosted at?

In essence it seems like you are saying there are inherent EQ freq that get affected when adjusting volumes of all your samples- so if you mix with those problematic freq =boosted= you will naturally avoid the resonances or boosts that occur (due to
Post subject: another rant Reply with quote
Fletcher Munson curves? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E ... son_curves) the equal loudness curves?

Sounds like the human ear hears sounds differently at different loudnesses.

Anyway- I feel more/different explanation would be helpful- thanks.

C

+1

the way I interpreted the chart is ,

a non linear relationship between volume and EQ curves.

with 10 Khz to 30 khz being the most noticably affected region. so if you are already heavy on the bass- (bad headphones, or whatever) you will be in big trouble when you turn up your signal. I dont know the exact curve to balance it out but 30 khz sounds about right, i usually do 2 dips or roll offs after a maximise or boost of a master recording or mix.

i think the best way to describe the amp trick is , subtractive mastering.

try it with problem areas to avoid having to re process or re encode your audio data. the less you have to mess with anything, the easier to recall it to an earlyer version or just simply have a cleaner less tampered with audio./.

Yes I get it thank you for expanding a bit on your original post. I have looked into some other links.

Basically humans hear 1-5kHz frequencies (at all volume levels) better than the frequencies above and below 1-5kHz. If you mix with your EQ subtracting those levels a bit, or boosting the other freq you will end up with a better mix possibly (for humans anyway heh). But this all seems relative to what listening volume the end listener will use because the human ear response changes at different volume levels for different frequencies.

Here are some links below that help to explain. This is a great topic.

There is also an old engineering trick/story when a band or producer is being picky or a pain. Reach over to the master fader and turn it up slightly. Since we hear all freq more equally at louder levels it sounds "better" louder. I am looking for the original quote.

Basic but well done video on the ELC (equal loudness curves):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGQh5bwm_8s

SOS article that mentions it- a bit dense:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar12/ ... ss.htm#Top

This article suggests simply mixing at higher volume heh:
http://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

C

cool, those links helped me understand whats going on better,
so it is precieved loudness, not an actual shift in the eq curves.
I appoligize for my uneducated assumptions on these technicalities.


i am basicly at square 1 again. with my new aproach as follows.
for 'mastering' I will set my amp to 3. half way between 0 and half volume.
this should be quiet enough not to be heard outside the room.

now just listen closely to the speaker and cut out the bass , you can judge much better at this level, and also you can master while yoru neighbors are sleeping. assuming your mix is decent you will get good results.

the goal of this technique is transperent sound. full sound but transperent and gentle.


also the HPF changed everything for me , so it's like I was born yesterday.

Nice!
Ya I get you- low vol- if you hear bass will be way too much at higher vol so cut it at low vol will "appear" when played back at moderate to high vol levels.

I learned about HPF when I bought a Neve Portico 5012 preamp. There was hardly anything on it but a prominent sweepable HPF. I was like "Rupert Neve must have had a damn good reason to put that there, but why?"- and he did. You add it to everything (besides sounds that may actually use or need 250Hz and below- and even then you could use it) and sweep it until you hear it change the sound then back it off a bit. There can be a low freq buildup in your mix you are not even hearing but mix gets muddier and less satisfying. Instruments and voices and mic stands and rooms all can add low freq to the recorded track but you do not need them and they hurt the mix.

one thing i noticed, that was bugging me because i didnt have a good grasp or understanding of, is soundcards outputs differ, same with operating systems, like hd audio and stuff which enhances sound, so you dont want none of that crap, anything with a baby jack (1/8) just cringes me for production, but i know they are nececary for some things, but dam they piss me off.

I forgot to mention for the low volume trick, you will have to creep the amp up (a notch or so) after your bass cut , for a clearer picture and will probably have to to another cut. then it's always a good idea to make shure your siblant highs arent distorting or anything., so check with headphones.

also be carefull, the entire spectrum is inter related, the frequencys are inter dependent on each other, it is very confusing, i just found about this from limpy loo's post somewhere, but

every freq you freak will change something else, for example, cutting lows will cause a shift in the high end. i need more to study on that subject.

Sounds like harmonics or resonance? Science!