maybe I only think way because I have to be 3 people when I make music.
I have to be
1) the artist . creative
2) the producer/engineer
3) music listener.

so, I guess what im trying to say, after a while of making it becomes less artistic and more a technical perfection. when you start mastering your own music you become a lot less artistic becuase you are in a technical mind set.

maybe a better way to describe it is, folowing sheet music, this isnt art, your a robot playing a song, like a midi file. I know you can augment new renditions, but I think skilled players will agree too. being a skilled player requires technical perfection as well, where you have to focus on playing perfectly, this is strict and robotic and not artistic anymore. fuck it im getting a hang drum and going to amsterdam. jk. sorry i can't explain things how I think them .

maybe i'm just in a bad phase now where my mind is over loading,
perhaps, once I master mastering and the technical skills become second nature , I will be able to let the art flow, and the technical stuff will be second nature so I wont even worry about it.

...

i suppose the question is what is art or artiness, i suppose.
A profound sort of thing is that the artist never gets to appreciate art the way that the observer does. the observer never gets to appreciate the art the way the artist does.

when you are brand new, everything is a blind experiment and you are primarily using your listener skills...learning an instrument/mastering a craft shows you a new way to view things. the secret is learning to appreciate seeing from the eyes of a master while at the same time, maintaining a sense of humble awe and exploration that a novice has.

the secret: always keep somewhat out of your element and learn that as an artist, you can never see or experience things the same way twice...or the way that you feel about everything will mature and change. Much like the seasons, you can not change them, but by appreciating what they have to offer you will always be satisfied.
-Lodger

Film is art and requires a shitload of people to produce. Even for indie documentaries, you need director (who is the person responsible for the 'art portion') and a crew of audio, camera and film people that do technical things.

I wouldn't look at it as not being art, but rather additions for the artist. I mean, you can finger paint and have it look okay, but it's probably look better if you used a variety of brushes.

@Scally: Even formally written music doesn't accommodate certain kinds of nuance. For instance it doesn't show accented notes (you gotta write that in jargon to go with the notes). Because of this, there's loads of room even a basic pianist can use when reading from a well worn script... It's not like a piano's midi-sync'd to anything so tempo, swing etc are entirely up to the player, regardless of the ability.

Also personally speaking I've seen what you're talking about a few times in person. Dudes who're all over their chosen genre but can't make shit worth listening to because they can't separate the different roles in self-producing. Who cares how nice something sounds if the rhythm's boring & there's no melody? If you try & make the kind of music you like rather than overcomplicate things it'll come naturally.

Honestly if you want music that's mastered, just get someone else to do it (as HS said it). Consider who's gonna hear your music & where they're gonna hear it. If you can get a recording to sound nice & it's not going on the radio, a major podcast or into a club then a mastering job's really just for ego's sake.

i think if you are making beats, you should at least learn basic mastering.

from what i gather so far, mastering is doing less, not doing more.
learning through trial and error is bogus, you should read about how to do something right, instead of do it wrong forever, and with basic techniques you can record like a master easily.

you want clean signals, you want good sound thats about it.

I think it's to late for me to turn back, I want good tones, so the mastering experience I have collecting so far is valuble, the last album I made I spent 80% of the time mastering it, and like 5 minutes making each beat. ha. instead of the regular 6-8 hours that goes into a 'masterpeice beat'
So it turned out to be like a mcdonalds happy meal, good clean and fast, but without propper nutrition. last mcdonalds album i ever make, thats forshure.

music isn't art when you worry about what other people think of it .. if you make what you feel and don't place it into boxes .. that is art . 1 . 1

the only time music isn't art is when you stop caring about it, everything, technical, creative, having that shit going round in your head all day at work, is all part of your craft and as long as you put love into it then it's art.

I usually just get into it and recorded shit live. After so many years of using programs I feel kinda liberated now. I just dump my samples when I'm done and don't look back...lol. Lifes too short

You've articulated my thoughts. I used to love Linkin Park back in early 2000s, mostly because of their energy and passion and anger they transmitted through their songs. I saw their gig several years ago and it was amazing in terms of performance and technical aspects and sound, but that passion was lost. They sound really good and professional but their music doesn't touch my soul anymore. I think it's an inevitable part of growing up as a musician, and the best time for a band is probably the days when they are somewhere in between