Is anyone here using any tracker programs? (milytracker, sunvox, renoise, and so on). If so what kind of work flows are being used and why?

i've tried all those in the years (sunvox as an app for phone is very cool), but the fact that they scroll vertically has always stopped me

Hseiken is a tracker master. Give him a PM and I'm sure he can help you out. I've been messing with nitrotracker on my DS lately, but I have a lot to learn still.

Trackers were designed from the ground up as a self-contained solution to people with computers and no musical hardware. The PC keyboard in every single one of them becomes a musical keyboard. Some even have built in sample editors (like ReNoise, which is my favorite). Others have built in synth archecture and modular connectivity between components (like SunVox and Buzz). The thing I find I like most about trackers is that track information is extremely condensed and I can see rhythmic interplay at a glance just by looking where a row is filled with notes. Basically the graphical things you see on a piano roll that take up a whole screen can be condensed into a single line of about 10 letters and once you can just glance at it, it's much easier to get an overall sense of a composition than a screen filling (but pretty) piano roll with color rectangles on it. It also has an advantage in that notes can be held forever. Note-offs are not required in trackers but are naturally required by piano rolls since there MUST be an end to a note in that methodology. Tracker's don't bother drawing notes in this way, therefore there's technically no need to have a note end.

In terms of what trackers I find good, here's a little bit on each one:

MilkyTracker - get this if you want to feel like it's 1994 and you're running DOS. It's a clone of a tracker that came out at that time and was very popular and stopped being usable as windows progressed in versions.

SunVox - Skip the portable versions. Trackers aren't meant for touch screens. It has some very neat 'changes' to tracker paradigm including visual effects editing and using pictures to name patterns. It's somewhere between a typical daw with a song arranger, a tracker and a modular synth. Alex is also a very nice guy and will help you with issues and loves to hear feedback.

ReNoise - My tracker of choice. The best things about it that I like is built in sample editor that could be sold for the price of ReNoise by itself. For you guys that like 'resampling', it's built in via select some shit->right click->Render to Sample. It's grown in features and I don't use half the new ones but one thing I also like is that long samples (such as vocals for instance) can now start in the middle of the sample without manually putting that in. It's now just a check box. If you were to put ReNoise into one sentence, it's the world's best DIY sampler software. It's also got visual automation bars like piano roll systems as well...idk, I could go on and on about ReNoise' badassery. It's also never crashed on me but maybe 4 times since I started using it in 2003. Keep in mind, I'm not much of a VST whore (and frankly don't really need them since you can draw your own sounds, resample, it's got like 30 built in effects, etc.)

So if I were to talk about it's workflow, one thing that people really love about trackers is that tracks aren't limited to be attached to one sound. In most piano roll systems, the notes you make in the piano roll are attached to whatever sampler or synth you're working with. Then you have to go back and add it to the rest of the song. In a tracker, ReNoise specifically, only effects (like reverb, delay, etc) are attached to a track and you can throw any instrument/sample/synth in there at will whenever you want. This creates quicker workflow, in my opinion, with complex instrumentation.

They're not the most immediately intuitive interface, but if you spend 2 weeks seriously trying to learn it, that should be enough time to decide whether it's for you or not. With the internet, there's a gazillion tutorial videos for you, a luxury which I didn't have when I learned it (which took quite a lot of will power!).

Overall, though, to be completely objective, trackers have their place and piano rolls have theirs. I just lean towards trackers for it's compact information display.

hseiken, thank for your in depth analysis. I have been playing with milkytracker for a couple of days now. I think I'll stay with it, being as it was free. Renoise, seems to be the leader at the moment. But, my wife will shoot me if I buy another piece for music creation. Do you find yourself using Renoise as more of an sound design tool or sequencing?

Lately, more or less as a sample editor, but I still bust it out now and then as a sequencer. My friend uses it as a MIDI sequencer for hardware and stuff. According to him, it's MIDI capabilities have been getting better as of late. I don't know about such things, though.

But it's definitely a good sequencer and sound design tool. And when both are running together in one program, you can't get much more fluid work flow than that.

the idea of drawing samples, was what caught my eye the most about trackers. ( so dope) . How have you been handling adding swing to your tracks ? Using the speed command? and if using the speed command in one track lane will that apply only to that track lane or all the track lanes? And thank you so much for your time....

In ReNoise you don't need the speed command (they have a groove editor with sliders for each pair of rows that correspond). In traditional trackers, yeah, one track, usually blank will have all the speed commands in it and yes, it affects whole tune.

Basically you'll play around with something like 3/6 or 2/5 as far as speed change values. I forget what it is in milky for the command. Again, renoise removes this old legacy stuff with the 'groove editor'.

Also, ReNoise is free. What you get when you pay for it is renderer and render-to-sample feature. That's the only thing missing. Sample editor is still there, etc.

YOu should try it.

From their page, these are the only limitations of the demo.

no ASIO support on Windows
rendering to .wav is disabled
rendering/resampling selections is disabled
rendering/freezing plugin instruments to samples is disabled
nag screens
as ReWire Master, only the first stereo input bus will be available
as ReWire Slave, Renoise will occasionally generate a small subtle hiss

Save tunes, all that shit still works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-9OFwcwiQI

Just trying to make your mouf water.

And here's a track I did quickly with one pattern playing live on my laptop keyboard. I tried to imitate in sound the 404. one good thing about Renoise over trackers is that it allows sub-tick timing for live recordings. I.e. It's even more precise than piano rolls in many cases if you're looking to capture live performance and all it's humanistic flaws.

That's what i kind of knew about the speed command, but just confirming my thoughts. Renoise, seems like a great all in one program. But it also seemed to have the " oh whats this do, oh whats that do, or oh oh whats this and that do". I like the bare bones of milky, just straight forward. Plus I have always taken the hard road in life, so why not in music. youtube link was cool, the track from the player dope.

Cool, mang. Trackers are fun. When you first start it feels like 'music hacking'.

There should be 'interpolate effects value' shortcut in Milky...an oldskool trick (still used by people sometimes) is to, say, on row 1, put sample with effect 900. Then repeat that note for whole pattern and on final note, put in effect 9ff, select the whole track and 'interpolate effects value' (might be CTRL+I? Dunno milky specific controls).

Instant cheap timestretch!

Tapestop would be done like


Etc. etc. All kinds of fun stuff. I'm assuming 2 is pitch bend down in milky..lol

Yeah milky has the interpolate effects value, I haven't seen the 9xx in the milky manual. I have just been time stretching by just playing the sample higher or lower on the keyboard. I'm just used to doing it on the emu e-5000 ultra via the keys. ( Love that little beast, so many dope things in it ). Do you think their is more of a advantage using the 9xx command? Just thinking, if one were to use the 9xx command wouldn't that use up the whole effect column? But, what's to stop me from resampling? I have been playing with making delay sounds with volume commands. (fun fun) Good look on the tape stop effect, are you sure it would work in milky? Isn't in the effect command column isn't 03x and arpeggio? (just trying to understand your note).

Pitching and time stretch are two separate things. 9xx command = sample start offset. You can use this for beat slicing. For instance, if you have a 1 measure beat that's perfectly synced...then...
900 = start of loo
920 = equal space between first kick and first snare
940 = first snare
960 = etc....essentially each +20 on value is on eighth note further to start the sample.
This would make a 10 increase 16th note offset.
i.e. 990 = offset to 9th 16th note.

This is assuming milky splits up samples equally regardless of length. I know that Impulse Tracker used sample data to offset, not percentage. I'm using ReNoise offset values here.

At any rate, knowing this comment, when you interpolate this, you're doing a time stretch, where pitch stays same and beat stutters but constantly moves forward. The faster the tempo or TPB, the smoother the stretch.

2xx SHOULD be course pitch down. Which is why you'd use it for tape stop. Increasing the value = more drastic and quick tape stop. You can also play sample backwards (B01? dunno) + 150 over several lines to do a rewind/record fling.

etc.

Sorry I"m not milky specific, but everything I've told you should translate once you know the effect number. The values should be identical.

loved that track hseiken, nice work renoize looks a little intimidating but i might watch a few tutorials and try it out...

I can answer almost any question you might have and renoise forum has quite a few veterans who love answering questions (there's also a beginners forum too for people who are new to trackers in general).