admbmb wrote:Ive been struggling with the "master-ready" concept with my tracks. I use compression heavily to achieve my sound and often times when I am arranging, I will preview the track with the compressor over the whole mix and then turn it off as I mix and record. Without the compressor, my tracks would sound like complete dogshit, because I am adjusting the levels so that the final compressed version sounds great. I think I would have a tough time just sending the uncompressed version and trust that the engineer would know what sound I was shooting for (in fact I guarantee it).
However, I also understand that a mastering engineer also has to consider the overall sound of a record and the track volumes have to gel well with each other. Usually when I am finished completely with an individual track, I raise the volume just before 0 dB (just before clipping). If I am understanding what Dibia$e is talking about, perhaps go ahead and do compression/limiting (if that is your thing) but don't limit the track to the peak point? Maybe leave about 3 dB of headroom, so your peak would be -3 dB instead of -0.1 dB so your engineer has a little room to play with?
If you read mixing/mastering books they caution about compressing a track before sending it to the engineer. I can see if this is true if you are mixing to a close approximation of how your sound would be, but what about if your sound is defined by heavy compression? I know this is the reason Madlib only submits "2 tracked" beats. If you notice, FlyLo is credited as the mixing engineer on all of his stuff probably due to the same thing.
u pretty much got it exactly. daddy kev mastered flylo last album and the sam album. it was the same process with machines hate me. i got to sit in on some of the mastering sessions. but the all city i got lucky they nailed it , but with cakeology it took a few tries to get it right. im afraid the beats will lose that sound trackin out completely so i see why madlib two tracks. sam does it as well
admbmb wrote: However, I also understand that a mastering engineer also has to consider the overall sound of a record and the track volumes have to gel well with each other. Usually when I am finished completely with an individual track, I raise the volume just before 0 dB (just before clipping). If I am understanding what Dibia$e is talking about, perhaps go ahead and do compression/limiting (if that is your thing) but don't limit the track to the peak point? Maybe leave about 3 dB of headroom, so your peak would be -3 dB instead of -0.1 dB so your engineer has a little room to play with?
As a mastering engineer this is what I want... IF the guy knows somewhat what he's doing and has a GOOD compressor. These days you need to know a bit of mastering technique or your joints will sound weak compared to everyone else on soundcloud. Adam I think your tracks are right on the money! Actually most people that have been on the forum for a while are pretty good with this.
dollarllama d wrote:they didnt really mention clarity of mixdown obviously u turn in tracks w/ best mixdown possible. but the question was about the compression mostly which u cant have on there too heavy when leaving with engineer. was speakin from experience from dealing with same engineer to get music master on the L.A. 10" series and what i told specifically .
Yeah it wasn't mentioned, but it still needs to be said. Lots of people neglect the mixing stage. As for compression, it's easily one of the most misused tools in production. But I've found that the less I use compression, the better my tracks sound. In fact, the only times when I personally uses it is very lightly to gel my drum parts together. And maybe very, very lightly on the final mix, but I would do that when I want to test out a song in the club. Compress the track lightly, then limit. If I'm sending it to a mastering engineer, then no compression is done at all on the final track, and like someone mentioned before, I make sure to leave ample headroom.
Last edited by adrianT on Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I like the direction this thread's taken! I really need to get deeper into mastering my stuff personally, but from what I understand having a mix that sits real nice 'before' it's mastered is one of the keys. After that it's a little foggy to me...
To jump back to the Onra sound - that pumping /ducking effect can be achieved with an MPC 1000/2500 even though you can't do true sidechaining. You can do faux New York/parallel compression which is nice, but to get the pumping you just need to make your chops real fine. Usually chop to 16s or above, then apply a really slow attack / release envelope to the chops that come between the kick and the snare. Then you just tweak the attack / release times until they bump right up against where the kick ends and the snare begins.
Now I am not trying to get into the musical side of things here (although I think the original and the edit are SICK!) - so lets just look at the sound of the edit. It is punchy as fuck, I don't think anyone will deny that. In fact it is so punchy that I seriously doubt that he is doing all this in an mpc alone. maybe he is, then more props to onra, but this is too punchy to be true - what do you guys think, and how did he achieve that level of punch? I noticed that the guitar licks are a lot more prominent in the edit than in the original indicating that a lot of serious eq-ing has taken place...
Great discussion on the merits of mastering. I gotta give it a try one day...
Oi Yellow, just checked a bunch of your tracks on Soundcloud: the Onra influence is there production wise. Good to hear that the beats aren't straight rips of his stuff too.
Don't forget that Onra did use a couple of session musicians on Long Distance.
I wouldn't be surprised if he mastered his samples or early/unfinished versions of his beats & resampled them for the finished versions, hence how his use of ducking is so effective with certain 'wide' sounds.
unfolding machines - thanks for listening. I really like the sound aesthetic of Onra. Guy has some amazing ears (and skills) for sure.
Ella - totally true. This is Onra track is a strong nod to daftpunk. But it definately has the onra twist. here is another thing I noticed while listening to track on headphones:
The original track basicly sits in the dead centre. same goes for the added kicks and bass sounds. now the mid to upperrange starts to get interesting: Obviously all the snare and clap tails are ducked hardcore - but the new thing I noticed is the following: All the added midrange and upperrange sounds and beats are panned to left and right. basicly the orignal track sits in the centre and the added stuff only happens on the sides. what do you guys think - do you hear it the same way? I am trying to get that sound on a project happening right now, kinda hard to nail the effect though. Probably even more so because I only use free / cheap mastering plugins that kinda destroy the stereo image when turned up hard.
