this idea was basically stated by sharpmotif in a recent post by nagz here in the 404 section. so you can rock it without having to record a drumloop out the box:

instead of using delete mode, use the pattern sequencer.

record a new pattern for each sample you want to use, with the sample quantized on the 1, so the pad plays right when you trigger the pattern with the sub pad.

build up a short drum loop through resampling, have it looped up on a pad & trigger your different patterns (which are really just your melodic loops or stabs) over it!

maybe this was hella obvious for people, but somehow it never really occurred to me despite nearly a decade of sp ownership.

I'm pretty sure this hasn't been obvious to anybody,lol...pretty damn brilliant idea actually,wow...ideally you could do your drum patterns on another sampler/drum machine & put them on seperate pads on the sp,record your chops to each pattern..then chain them together etc.....this is dope,for real,nice...these two methods may not be the most practical things ever,but it's a lot of fun just banging away at the pads.dope beats can definitely be created this way though-i never make resample beats,but i can't immagine it's any less tedious workflow wise.

yeah its really not that tedious at all. sure you might need to record several patterns, but you're only hitting one sample for each pattern, so you can just hit the pad then hit cancel immediately and your pattern is recorded. and making a basic resampled drum loop takes about ten seconds

Only drawback vs the regular mute group trick is the inability to resample (big thing if you're working solely ITB).

While we're at it, using HOLD on Erase Mode (Pattern Sequencer) can work like a "manual slicer". Only found out about this the other day, it's one of those tips in the manual that's easy to miss.

when you refer to the 'regular' trick you must not be talking about delete mode because this also disables resampling.
do you mean having samples gated or having them on loop and hitting two pads at the same time?
while the latter two methods are more practical for integration with resampling or sequencing they don't have an 'mpc' feel having to manually stop one pad

I was actually talking about using Subsonic to mute, but you're right none of these tricks feels much like actually playing - they're more like "controlling".

true, the subsonic or isolator trick gives you much more control and allows multiple sample polyphony.
the cool thing about this new trick though is it allows you to apply vinyl sim compression to all your samples (if that's your bag) and possibly lay down your entire song in one pass, all in one machine. for the subsonic trick you'd need another sampler, multi, or have to apply vinyl sim during a second pass

i was just messing with this..the only drawback is that there's always a slight mili-second pause when you switch patterns using the sub pad..at least on my 404.so it makes it hard if not impossible to get the chops to hit right where i need them to.

really? i didn't notice that. did you quantize the samples to the lowest setting (1/4 notes) in the pattern sequencer?

yea,i made sure to quantize on 1/4th..i had forgot it does this,been a long time since i used the sub pad..but for example,if i have a beat recorded in the sequencer and try to make the first kick hit 4 times before letting it play,there will be a slight pause between each hit. I just assumed this happens with all 404's,but maybe mine has always had a glitch or something...

i almost commented right away that i probably wouldn't use it cause i know how much the timing sucks when using the sub pad to switch patterns, its usually either just too fast or just too slow, and i mean by like a hair, but enough to notice for sure, maybe the change is somehow linked to the BPM count........but either way, i've never been too interested in having this feature anyway, i'm fine with using gate to figure out some ideas and then marking all my shit out and making multiple copies, some SP work around ingenuity at its finest though

i always thought the pattern trick has some sort of alien quantinize or something, the way it snaps like some of this future music does.

so you think sub pad triggering is more precise if the pattern bpm is 102?

no no, just to whatever you have the BPM set at, but i guess that doesn't really make sense, because then you would think it would make it easier to trigger patterns on quarter notes and have them sound in time, a good way to see what i mean is to take a pattern you have right now on the SP that has some drums in it, preferably one with a basic drum pattern where there is a kick at the top and a snare on the 2, and to use the sub to play some thing like 1-1-1-1-1-2-3-4, so just 4 quarter notes of the first beat, and then smash it a 5th time to let it play out, or just keep smashing it on quarter notes over and over to try and perfect the timing, to me it seems that its really hard to consistently get the sub pad to trigger patterns in time, maybe i just haven't practiced and utilized that function enough though

yeah i think i'm seeing the little hiccup you guys are talking about. i guess it just doesn't really seem like a big deal to me for triggering non-percussive samples. i think samples with larger attack transients will cause more problems while softer, smoother samples allow more wiggle room for error