Confessions on sampling workflow

[jetson]

Wow. I have to confess. I've never tried to use my SP exclusively to build a track. So far, it's been more of a toy. I use Logic for my serious work. But hell no, I just joined some of these battles, and this is an eye opener for me. The SP-808 had the four track audio recorder and pattern sequencer - with visuals!

This 404SX is another beast altogether. So here's my thought so far. I've been relying on visuals a lot for my work. Wave editors, and track views, alignment, tempo matching, etc. And the ability to flip sounds around anywhere without thinking has spoiled me. I can only hear what is happening with the 404.

I put on my headphones, and listen to my samples, and try to find chop points. But it's not precise, it's an art. It takes actual listening. And I'm finally realizing that listening to each piece, each pad, each sample - how it starts and ends, decays' adding effects, what does that do to the sound - where does it sit in the mix - volumes! Shit, everything.

Anyway, just a rant on how I need to get my shit together on this 404 if I am to be the masters that I hear around this forum. Much respect to some of you people that can make these SP's spit out tracks. Damn amazing, in a lot of ways.

peace

[FrancisTurkey]

WORD!:)

[TGN]

Word!
Lost myself in stupid perfectionism in "Music 2000", "Fruity Loops" and "Propellerheads Reason" for 10 years before i bought my first sp 404 and a dr 202 a few weeks ago!

[tape smoke]

i am back to 404 only production, it took a while to get back into it,

but i work way different and cooler now, i use reasonable and comfortable levels for my kick drum and snare, I used to just thump them out with my headphones and i mean really smack the drums, but it causes me headaches,. and now I monitor really quiet and leave the room to see if i can hear the kick and snare thumping out of control. a good way to monitor with the 404 is just plug a speaker into the headphone jack, it wont be loud, but it will give you a good idea of all the levels in your mix, switch between headphones and the speaker, and then test on an amp to make shure its truest response.

[jetson]

Sgb...that's good advice. That's the norm for recording engineers, don't do it all with headphones. It can be dangerous, and it can skew an otherwise good mix.

Since i have active monitors in my Logic setup, it is easy for me to switch to speakers instead of headphones. Right now I'm on the road, so I'm kind of stuck with the cans. Makes me wonder what it will sound like when I get home tonight!

[tape smoke]

i been using budget headphones, they sound good, but they really make the beat sound bad on speakers, when i make a beat thru the speakers and then switch to headphones, it sounds really high. and i would never be able to mix like that with these effin head phones. I feel like i wasted tons of beats by trusting them, but its all a learning experience. there is a point when to much power just hurts you instead of sounds good, like for example, your neighbours shouldnt be able to hear your drums thumping for 9 hours while you make a 2 bar loop. even with a small and little speakers, when i switch from headphones, the speakers explode with bass. its the isolator mixing with my hifi and it doubles the bass, i think this is infra sound, where your speakers are rumblling out of control and you cant hear it. it makes people paranoid and people mistake it for ghosts and aliens or something so i read on mywacko conspiracy threory sites.

[fauna]

That's Δ some awesome shit right there!

I remember the first times I played with a 202 and trying to get used to "mark" button, and how it was a total switch away from seeing a WAV. What I immediately realized was that I was finding loops by ear that I wouldn't have found by screen. More like being in the pocket a bit more.

[thx]

^
ho yeah
i feel that

[adapter pilot]

It's also nice not to be inundated with all "updates" that those software co's try to convince you are necessary. I was fine with Reason 3, DP 3, but all the updates sent me back to hardware, thankfully. It's much more organic.

[jetson]

So, I'm reading the manual on pattern recording, and trying to figure out how quantizing works, and nothing sounds quite right, except that if I switch it to quarter notes, it will wipe out any attempted eight notes I played. So that confirms its doing something! But...

I think this points out that having accurate samples is important. I loaded the factory sounds and patterns, and it is beyond obvious that this was done completely under the computer microscope, for obvious reasons. Everything is perfectly looped, and sample accurate. But my samples, done by ear, don't have the cleanest start points, tails, etc. So they tend to sound "not quite quantized" to my ears.

I'm spoiled like a little bitch man. Now I hear everything quantized to Hell, and I have to get used to it being "off".

I know some of you cats prefer your shit to be less quantized, and I can dig it...but man, this is another wake-up call for this old fart.

Sorry for all of my ranting...

[MDX]

its funny you posted this cuz i have gone back and forth between software and hardware for a while.

started out with fl studio- then reason, stayed with reason for a minute with akai midi controller

then went to strictly hardware. which originally was an sp 606
sold that and bought a 404 og
sold that and bought a mpc 2000xl(still wish i never sold that fucker)
sold that and bought mpc 1000-bk(barely used it cuz i couldnt stand the pads and also needed the money back cuz i didnt have money in the first place)

then i went back to software. bought the maschine and let me say that is probably imo the best piece of gear that ive owned outside of the 404 or 2000xl.

anyways ran into a time frame in school that i needed the cash and decided to sell all of my gear..... no lie

finally as of a month ago i decided to go back to the roots and get the 404sx do all my production strictly on that beast. done.
dont know if ill every change anything. the beat making process makes me appreciate the samples and time i put into each track.
nothing better, especially with a nice import brew chillin beside the 404.
now thats a combo-

[jetson]

Damn Mohzus - I've been so caught up in the maschine, especially the Mikro - it looks like you get it all - precise wav editing, plus computer sequencing, hands on pads, etc. But damn, Logic does all of that with the EXS sampler and the Ultrabeat - ya just gotta learn how they work.

I don't need a mikro, I don't need a mikro, I don't need a mikro!!! LOL

But I keep telling myself that my 404 is perfect, because all I need is headphones and the sampler, and with batteries, I'm totally mobile.

Now, the rules for using only the SP for battles are cool, but outside of that, I can use Logic to get my sample banks all cooked up and ready, dump them all to the card with BankRobber (blows Roland wav convertor out of the water), and start banging beats anywhere. Hell, I even carry a 57 and a mic cable in my bag in case I need a quick vocal stab (that's embarrassing in public though, so I haven't actually tried it!)

[MDX]

shit better than recording a video of yourself on your phone beatboxing a melody and drums in front of people at the park lol.. just sayin

take the mic out with the 404 live it!

[boombapp28]

I've never used any software sampler or DAW to make music. In high school all the way through college, I was in front of computers a majority of the time so I developed a distaste for using them for musical production. Fast forward to the present: I'm in front of a computer all day at work so I still shun the PC as a music making tool.

I'm not knocking it at all. I've heard some out of this world production that was done on the computer but it's not for me. I get so impatient and easily agitated when I work with a friend who does everything on the computer. I'll lay down a fat ass drum track via a sampler but we waste time looking for a solid bass patch in Reason or Fruity Loops to complement that drum track. How many different sounds are available in those things and I can't find one to work with?

One thing I will admit is that it takes me a while longer to release my music because I haven't fully embraced the world of DAWs and the like. That's one area where I think it would help.

[roygbivs]

^Right there with ya, I work in the game industry so on computers sometimes 12-16 hour days, I hate coming home and being a mouse/keyboard slave when trying to relax/unwind mentally.

Anyways my sampling has become very simple and minimal over the year. Right now I have 3 samplers that I have collected. The SP 404, 303 and MPC 1000 with JJOS2XL. I like to use them all individually and hardly move projects around, each sampler has their own characteristics and working methods and I use them all differently, eg. I use the SP 303 in pattern sequence, but so far have only been using my SP 404 as a resampling beat builder tool and hardly ever use the pattern sequencer on it.

The MPC has turned into my 'PC'. It's my go to if I want to build something, sometimes even use it as a 8 track out of the SP. I generally try and mix it up with what I use as I feel like this keeps it fun and creative. I can use the SP for a while and really get into one style or aspect of making a beat and then when i'm back on the MPC I use that for new ideas on this new setup and things just grow from there. Right now I'm on a SP 404 loop building kick, it's very very minimal and limiting, at least for me. I know once I get back to the MPC I'll be making some sick Dilla (RIP Dilla Month) inspired beats, just to the point and raw. Oh and all of this comes out of a Technics 1200. Been using vinyl only for the last 5 months for almost everything, sometimes I get a bass sound out of the MicroKorg if I want some grit.

Enough rambling.