@unfolding machines

Dude I'm with you if there is Positive Dialog going on, then its not really arguing, its more like an open discussion between two people with different views and thats cool....my point was only about people being negative and ignorant and not wanting to discuss things in a positive manner, they just want to put down whatever view, or in this case style of music. If someone wants to discuss whatever topics or views in a postive way, then by all means we can build on that, and we all dont have to agree, thats cool to. But going back and forth argument style is what I was referring to, and at this stage of the game (with me at least ), I'm not trying to do that, but for those who want to, knock yourselves out.

You know, after I posted that it dawned on me that's probably what you meant- positive dialogue & all. Decided to leave it up anyway in case it wasn't, sorry dude I was overthinking (as usual) when I wrote that.

If someone asks me if I play an instrument, I say yes, the SP404.

Sorry bro being nice with the 404 isn't the same as playing an instrument. This is coming from a lifelong hip hop head who makes sampled beats too.
Learn an instrument you'll see what I mean. It's just much more spontaneous, fulfilling, I dunno. You can't go to a jam with a 404 in the same way you can with a guitar or sax or whatever.

I play the guitar myself and although the music I play on my guitar is perhaps more complex and improvisations tend to be very fulfilling, I do think that it's somewhat apples and oranges when at the same time it's not. I can do improvisations on my MV-8800 too, it just takes a bit more preparation when it comes to which samples to use.

I don't think making sampled beats is really easier. A lot of people play instruments, but always rely on other people's music creation. Why is that better than making a sampled beat doing something different?

I can play songs I know on my guitar with my eyes closed. I can even jam new songs together when I'm in the right mood so to speak. But perhaps that's simply a matter of experience and growing up with my guitar?

I do not necessarily agree with the somewhat elitist point of view on regular instruments being superior.

In my opinion the SP-404 is an instrument, but it's just bound by different rules and usage. Often times you sample other instruments to be able to produce sounds. I'd say that's a big difference, but not necessarily something that should matter in a creative sense.

I can record a guitar song to a tape recorder, but I can also make full productions on my MV-8800. I could even use the guitar stuff I've played in my music.

At the end of the day, it's still music.



Some of my friends only believed me when I told them where the samples came from when I had shown the imported originals, chopped up and resampled. It's just how sampling is different and often times this confuses people.



Yeah, I usually don't really bother either, mainly because in the end it doesn't really matter much. People are free to disagree, but I don't think sampling is stealing.

Missing the point, I'm not taking away from the music you can make with a sampler. As I said, my favourite music, ie the music which moves me the most, is hip hop. J Dilla was as much a musician as Coltrane.

On a hermit tip, samplers or guitars comes down to personal preference, whatever you can make better music with. But one of the most fulfilling things about music is playing with other musicians. When you do that you gotta be able to respond to the people you're playing with instantaneously, you can't do that on a sampler, you've got to go into a menu first lol.

It is probably possible to get so nice with a sampler that you can play it like an instrument, but I'm willing to bet my house that no one on here, nor 99% of people that have ever claimed to make beats aren't that nice.

Not elitist at all, I spend most of my days arguing with musicians in favour of sampling.

First off, obviously a fan of samplers and electronic music

but

Playing a sampler is usually hitting 16 buttons/pads in time , triggering beats or loops or one hits. At the end of the day, you are hitting pads with your fingers - The samples and the composition of course are where the musical talent really come in, hearing the melodies, syncopation, layering, adding effects.

pretty much anyone can pick up and play on a sampler, but no, not everyone will be great at it or have "taste", which of course is relative. Instruments like drums/guitar/horn/keys take years to master, and have nuances, emotions, dynamicism that you aren't getting tapping a pad. (played guitar/drums/bass for over 15 years).

All I'm getting at, is its alot easier to play pre-loaded pads with 2 fingers than play a complex drum beats with all limbs flailing, or a fast paced jazz or metal song with lots of chords

I'm perhaps confused by the double negative in that last sentence, but I know a lot of cats, famous and not so famous that can do excellent fully fledged live drumming on their samplers doing full songs. That's drums and samples in a live play altogether.

It's probably easy to dig up at least some videos showing that;

http://www.youtube.com/user/NativeInstr ... K2aynMMBpo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kqA5n_V ... re=related

take out the live drumming part, add a couple of recording passes and you might get this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ShAWzqA ... re=related

Which I think is equally impressive to some extent and at least as musical as the live drumming (which sometimes comes across as a bit frantic).

I really don't claim to be very skilled at using my samplers as live drumming tools in this instrumental sense, but people that use samplers in that way certainly use it as a pure instrument in my book.

To be honest, it's all the same to me. People will always have their preferences and play styles, but why would the way you make music define whether what you use is or is not an instrument?

I can get together and jam together with friends with multiple samplers, no problem. The same joy of music creation and jamming is right there.

I sometimes compare sampling and beat making with beatboxing. Some people don't seem to think of using your mouth to make sounds as 'playing an instrument' either. But why?

Do you really think so?? If you single out of the equation the learning curve you went through trying to master those live instruments, then it's really not that much more difficult at all if you're after the same complexity in your music.

The fact that you can record in several passes might seemingly make things easier, but if you want to get that same live drumming going, you'll still need to learn to master your sampler as an instrument.

Some people don't spend time learning that, because they don't do live shows. But in that sense it really takes the same basic skills any other instrument requires.

I know you can record chords and use a single pad to play them, versus using more fingers to play a chord on an instrument. But usually doing a live play on a sampler involves a bit more than just pressing pads to play pre-recorded chords, right?

not to be a dick, but go look up someone like Django Reinhardt or Wes Montgomery, and tell me that is the same as pad mashing.

This is coming from a pad masher and guitarist, who does more of the former.

But its comparing apples to peanuts really.

i see points on both sides... but i think that learning a machine and creating your own workflow and finding a way to apply it to a live performance takes dedication just like learning an instrument...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCgR4C6P ... re=related

An opinion war that will never have an end, so why bother?

Don't forget the simple, but mighty ability to find different pieces of tones/samples/noises/sounds maybe from different sources like cds dvds, vhs-cassettes, records, tapes, instruments or sampled from radio or tv and let them all have sex with each other to create a new arrangement or a completely new sound.

That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that, another one of those great artists I had somewhat forgotten about.



You're right, but I think there are good points being made on both sides. It's all just a matter of perspective and opinions. In my book there's no right or wrong there.

Yeah its good to compare for techniques but arguing with someone who is anti sampling is a waste of my time, I know what I like could care less where they stand on the issue.