Looking for some insight on the 303/505 compression we all like so much - I guess vinyl sim and the main compressor - What gives it its punch...the long attack/release? Higher compression ratio?

On the MV site i recently started a thread about getting the nasty SP compression on an MV - the MV compression is great but I want to dirty it up more , get that gluey , breath and release sound more.

So opinions, what technically (ratio, gain makeup, A/R settings) gives it it's appeal? I know I won't get exactly the same on the MV but seems like with some smart settings i could get close...

personally i prefer sp303 compression rather than 505's. i feel it more warm.
probably one thing that makes different MV's compression from 303/505's is also the A/D converters.

i like to use the vinyl sim's compression for snares, it doesn't seem to work that great on bass drums. then depending on the quality of the drum samples i may use a combination of the built in eq and compressor fx to get tight punchy drum sounds. the 303's lofi is probably better than the 505's too.

except...the 303 and 505 have the same effects engine:
From sound on sound review;
"The SP505 offers a built-in bank of 26 effects — the same ones included in the SP303, in fact"

oops, my bad

i went from 303 to 505 and can assure you they dont sound the same,

but the 505 sounds closer to a 303 than a 404.

Same effects , same 20 bit A/D conversion, same 44/22/11khz sample options - I would have to hear the same exact sample on both with the same effect but the general notion from Roland and users here is they are the same engine.

here is another quote on the topic, from user IllGreen:
"Difference between 303 and 505 in terms of sound is that the 303 has white noise and the 505 has less of it. But both machines are the same though except 505 has a screen, and few more features."

404 and 555 are of course completely different animals.

But I don't want to get into a big rambling thread about that, back to compression.

yeah maybe it is the white noise that makes them different.

I noticed mostly with reverb and eq sounding totally different. on the highs, maybe it is the 505's lack of white noise. The flutter on the vinyl sim seems to make better flutter anomalies than the 404. I usually stay away from the crackle though, because I dont know how to use it, and im shure popping spikes of noise at high volumes cant be good for you. But im thinking if you compress the sample heavy enough it could sound like a vinyl crack, but bouncing to tape would smooth out the crackle spikes. I am mostly referring to the 404 crackle, because I dont remember what the other sp's sound like, I think the 555's is not so harsh.

The first think I noticed about the 404 was it had a harsher rough digital sound at the default cd quality setting. I worked around it by sampling lower and keeping the 404 at full blast, while working under neath the clip meter, the lows are rediculously insane, you could use the fx limiter, (cancel+mfx) but it will cut the power by more than half. giving a pretty weak sound, compared to the full blast low boost power of natural 404 .
However, using the limiter is great for performing live, because you never have to risk blowing an amp or speakers at show.

interesting...yeah i could see how that noise makes a diff in some effects.

Yeah the 555 Vinyl sim is pretty good - nice flutter but the amount/knob 1 is more of a filtered effect than a compression on the 505, so I tend to like the 505 better on stuff like drums - but the 555 vinyl is GREAT for running synths through for that old worn out feel.

yeah i have to use that effect limit deal - it sucks because it DOES gut some power from effects, but I play at home thru a PA system and if you are not careful with some filters/EQ/compression it can get speaker ripping loud

quote
+
i made a trhead one or two weeks ago with many samplers comparison with the same sample (but no effects), it is in this section.
http://sp-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11682&start=0

@blavatsky
but if you want i can post a sample treated with the fx you want by the 2 samplers...

^ yeah man I read that, good topic - to my ears the 505/303 on there are virtually indistinguishable.

I'm going to try to get a demo of the SP505 compression, then 'emulate' as close as I can on the MV....the MV has a lot of settings to tweak , I think part of the trick is the 303/505 use a pretty high ratio like 8:1 or 10:1.

I don't know, the character of compression on the 303 is kinda like Joe Pesci in Casino.

yeah, or perhaps Marv in Sin City.

Dumb question: I see some ppl use vinyl sim and calling that the 303 compression, but there is also the plain compression effect...which one is the most used/abused/copied?

The viny sim is the one most abused I would think...

Speaking on the 303 and the 505, the 505 is more refined in the Nominal input level is better on the 505, The input impedance and output impedance are both better on the 505...

There is more white noise in the 303 ...and the fx like say vinyl sim wen u tweak live it distorts Wher as the 505 is smooth .

So I would say the 505s vinyl sim is better...

Side note...on my loopstar Heros beat tape I ran my beats thru the 303 vinyl sim and on slumlord I only used the 505 vinyl sim...u can definitely hear the hiss on loopstar but not so much on slumlord..and I think loopstar sounds better too.

after some more digging on the MV compression, i'm pretty sure (while nice) it just doesn't have the ability to sound like the 303/505 - not enough grit, not enough ratio options - it does have a filter but really the A/D converters etc are obviously very different.

On a slightly altered note, gained a little new respect for the SP555 MFX B5 compressor (not the B1 one) - It can get very grainy and almost decimated sounding, and has done a good job on a few recent tracks, esp. on drums.