SP-FORUMS

Not joining a guitar forum just to ask this, so might as well ask here under "Other Gear".

I've decided to buy a guitar to feed my Zoom R8, but I know nothing about guitars and have a couple of questions if anyone can help. Please read carfefully so that you understand my needs. I'm not a guitarist and doubt I will ever be so there's no point going-off on some romantic discussion about quality brands etc.

My needs are very simple but also very specific. For starters I want a black one, and I was not able to find a budget guitar that has a black body and neck, so in the end I thought about getting the kit that you see in the photos, which I really like the idea of, but look at it closely and you will understand the need for my first question.

It's about the pickup arrangement. It seems a bit too good to be true for the price of £120, cause I see two humbuckers and a single which seems a bit unusual considering for example that even the pricier ESP and Ibanez stuff is often two humbuckers, three singles, or two singles and a humbucker. And what I need to know relates directly to my second question which is about the type of tone you get by flipping the switch for selecting the pickup pairings.

Please listen to the sound that comes in at 4:40 and tell me what is happening there. Notice it sounds sort of higher but less agressive, so is it down to them flipping the pickup switch or is it a guitar effect that makes it sound like that? And if it's got something to do with the pickups, would that sort of thing be possible with the guitar shown in the pictures?

I don't want it to sound like that all the time (in fact probably hardly ever) but I love that sound whenever I hear it and I want to be able to do that as well as the heavier metal tones. As far as I'm aware the two humbuckers will have no problem delivering the metal tones, but I'm still not sure what is going on with the other thing or whether it even has anything to do with the pickups or their arrangement at all.

The idea is that, even though I cannot play, all I need to do is practice my own melodies and chords a phrase at a time and keep repeating it over and over until I do it right and can stop the recording. That way all I need to do is edit out the bad parts and keep the good parts, so that eventually, by arranging the good parts in series and layering them etc, it would sound as if I played it all in one go. It means I could perform a complete guitar song without even being a guitar player thanks to sampling!

Here's the track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghOtJEAjCuc

So listen to what happens to the guitar tone at 4:40 and compare it to what it sounded like before it changed, it's a very different sort of tone, so what is it and would it be possible with this fancy pickup arrangement?

I really hope so cause I really like that guitar and the way the pickup arrangement looks in a physical sense, and my mind is in overdrive just imagining the sort of 'Dark Art' I could theme it in before coating it in resin or whatever. I notice they even left the headstock unshaped so that you can customise it, so pretty damn cool really, especially for £120.

im pretty sure they sell that exact guitar on wish, the tone is not nice, the action is poor and itll be a bitch to keep in tune. Honestly, a good starting budget point for metal would be ibanez, might be double what ur asking there but heaps better. in terms of recreating that tone ur asking for itll be down to amps and pedals etc and what they can offer as opposed to the guitar but youll figure it out.

Im more of a fender jazzmaster and jaguar guy, in it more for the jazz than metal, but look into ibanez for what u need

Thanks for the heads-up Jaytreaze. The main thing for me is that the sound I mentioned has nothing to do with the pickups if I'm understanding you right.

If it's got to do with amps etc then that's cool cause there are tons of amps and effects on the Zoom R8 and that's what I'll be feeding it into. I hear you on the other brands and in fact I was going to buy an Ibanez Mikro cause I thought it would be easier to play. It just pisses me off that all those budget guitars have natural wood-coloured necks though.

I've never visited Wish, although I "Wish" YouTube would stop bombarding me with their fucking ads (I must have seen that Wish ad a hundred times in the last few days alone).

To be fair though there are lots of those DIY kits around, I mean even on the website I founnd this one on there are thirteen different models to choose from. The one shown here is the "Super-Cutaway" version that supposedly has upgraded parts and stuff so hopefully it is not the same as the one you mentioned.

I can't go back to the idea of buying a ready-made one now that my mind is in overdrive wanting to build my own custom out of this kit. Plus, bear in mind that even professionals often say that a lot of those cheap guitars are actually not bad at all and that they fail mainly in being badly set up and poor quality control.

I don't have to worry about any of those things with a kit, because I get to decide the quality of finish myself and I even get to set it up correctly through trial and error. I suppose in a way it's even an education to an extent. Like I said though, I'm not a guitar player anyway, so the sort of stuff that would normally piss-of a real guitarist I'll probably not even notice.

The main thing for me is what you said about how the tone is achieved, so that's a relief. I did suspect it might be an effect but thought it best to ask. I actually suspected it might be some sort of pitch octaving effect when I first started trying to analyse it.

By the way, here's the full range of kits, the one I'm talking about here is the one called "Super-Cutaway" with the upgraded parts, and there are different versions of "Cutaway".

Complete DIY Guitar Kit Range:
https://www.gear4music.com/Electric-Gui ... =price,asc

BTW, now that I finally have an SP-404MKII ordered I guess I'll be feeding it into that instead. Not parting with the Zoom R8 though, it's far too good a device to part with. I'd rather put it back in the box and keep it than part with it.

If you buy one of those cheap ass kits it'll more than likely just sound like a cheap ass shitty guitar .

Even when set up correctly,which takes a professional or someone with years of experience there's no guarantee that it'll sound any good.

I've played,restored and built guitars for 30 years .. believe me you will get frustrated ...you'd be amazed by how many guitar players don't even know how to change a string correctly, let alone adjust the saddles for precise intonation and again ,I'm talking about musicians with years of experience.

If you want to play Metal get an Ibanez as Jaytreaze said or something like a B.C. Rich or a second hand E.S.P.

For Metal a locking nut is also a thing you should consider .

And buy a Boss Metal Zone stompbox.

I'm more of a Gretsch and Gibson player myself, Blues ,Funk ,Jazz and Fusion.

I also play tons of acoustic stuff but that's the way Id recommend for anyone starting out on that particular genre to go .

So I saw this video where this one dude tried a bunch of music gear from Wish. Some of it was good, bad & ugly. The guitar you guys are mentioning here is in that list.

https://youtu.be/HbL4-jEEX88

Skip to the 4th minute and he gives his honest opinion on it

Bruh, that Wish guitar is not the same guitar kit, not even close. It's a smaller scale kids guitar and the hardware and pickup system included with it is nowhere near that of the kit I showed in the photos. The bridge alone is way better, way more sophisticated and as far as I can tell it even has those locking nuts Danswift just mentioned, I can see those little thumbwheels on it.

Totally different guitar!

That said, at least I was on the right track in looking at ESP and Ibanez. I automatically started comparing those two brands due to being a 'Closet Goth' since my early teens. They nearly all seem to gravitate to ESP/LTD and Ibanez and I've noticed the same is often true for Metal.

I've decided well and truly against the Ibanez miKro though, cause although it would be easier to play I'm guessing physics would mean it was unable to growl as good as a full-size guitar could.

Anyway there is an ESP and Ibanez I'm still looking at. I like the ESP due to its styling, and I like the Ibanez due to its slimness, it almost looks as if it's been flattened under a steam roller compared to the thickness of other most other guitars and that makes me think it might be really nice to play compared to the ESP which actually looks quite chunky in comparison.

Personally I think I've got quite girly hands really, so I have to consider that as well. But if I were to trust the promotional banter from the manufacturers themselves, I'm thinking that maybe the ESP will sound a bit more grittier and that the Ibanez will be a bit more playable, cause ESP appear to be concentrating on promoting the gritty tone whereas Ibanez appear to be concentrating on the playability.

Will have to watch some more videos I suppose, but like I said I'm honestly still considering that kit as well, it definitely is not the same kit as on the Wish video, far from it!

ESP LTD F-10:
https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-B ... -Black/GEV

IBANEZ GSA60 GIO BLACK NIGHT:
https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-B ... Night/295L

So if any of you have any opinions on either of those two I would love to hear them now rather than after I make my descision. They both look like really nice guitars and I'm sure I'd be happy with either, but at the end of the day I have to make a decision cause there's no way I'm buying more than one guitar, I'm not even a guitarist.

PS: On the Ibanez you will need to click on the angled views in order to see what I mean about it looking slimmer than they usually are.

Danswift wrote:And buy a Boss Metal Zone stompbox.

I was just watching some videos about it (both the original and the 2.0 'Waza Craft' version). It does sound very nice but man, £125 for a distortion pedal!

Hadn't considered buying any external pedals to be honest. I intended to set up my own effects chains within the R8, or now since one is on its way, the SP-404MKII. So I'll be seeing how I get on with those effects at first, but if I cannot get what I want out of them I will definitely need to buy at least a few pedals and that BOSS is definitely a killer-sounding contender!

£125 isn't that expensive for a distortion pedal.

And especially if it's the right one

SP-USER wrote:
Here's the track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghOtJEAjCuc

So listen to what happens to the guitar tone at 4:40 and compare it to what it sounded like before it changed, it's a very different sort of tone, so what is it and would it be possible with this fancy pickup arrangement?

You mean when the lead/solo comes in?
Sounds like an octave/harmonizer effect to my ears. Instant hair-metal

Won't comment on the quality of the kitset guitar, but I reckon it sounds like a really fun project to try out - all power to you!!

As for pickup configurations, they affect the tone in exactly the same way strumming an acoustic guitar closer to the neck will sound warmer, closer to the bridge will sound more brittle and trebly. There is a differnce between single coil and humbuckers too, but I don't remember what!

My "dude-guess" is that guitar prices have been coming down the last few years, while quality has been going up. I watched a vid the other day explaining why fender has been selling more guitars than ever these last 5 years, while Gibson is risking going bust - Fender uses a bolt-on neck: cheaper to manufacture and they offer more variations than a glued or one-piece Gibsons that cost more and seem like 'your boomer-dad's guitar'.

When I was a teenager in the mid-90's, Squier (bargain Fender's) were utter shit... you'd be embarrassed to hold one, let alone play one (my high school had one and the frets were like speed-bumps.. the whole thing reeked of cheap plastic)

But I bought a new Squier for my son on his 18th birthday after trying it out in the store... felt and played exactly like the Strat I lusted over when I was his age but never could afford... couldn't believe how smooth it mooved.

The difference between single coils and humbuckers are humbuckers consist of 2 single coil pickups wired together.

You can also have the option to make humbuckers split which gives you the sound of just a single coil.

Totally hear you on those 90s Squiers, Lif.

The 80s versions were actually pretty decent on the other hand though...I had a couple which were really good guitars.

sp user do u have a music shop near you? maybe you can speak to them about what options they have for self builds if you still want to have the fun of building your own

@lif we used to have a ton of old squiers when i was in school that theyd kept for yeaaaaars and i know what you mean with the frets, noticed some were also sharp and stuck out from the side of the fretboard just enough to get cuts on your hands and thumb when moving across the board (

i do have a fender electro acoustic guitar atm and man it feels so nice

Danswift: True, and it's definitely a contender regardless of the price, especially as it's got 'Parametric EQ' built in cause I think it's actually the Parametric EQ that gives it an advantage over a lot of the others.


LIF: Cheers mate, and yep, that's exactly what I was talking about. I did suspect it was pitch-related but wasn't sure whether it was down to an effect or whether it had something to do with the mixing of two pickup types. But yeah, love that effect so I'm glad it's not guitar specific and thanks for the confirmation!

Not interested in Gibson, Fender or Squier branded stuff, I don't like the styling of them to be honest and cannot stand the shaping of the headstock on them, I much prefer the looks of ESP, Ibanez and Jackson guitars.

Yep, would be a cool project to buy the kit I think, and even if I mess it up I think I'd get a lot of enjoyment out of building, fettling and customising my own guitar and it really isn't the guitar kit they seem to think it is. If you look at the brige alone it is actually a very sophisticated one cause it not only has the adjuster screws, it also has a second row of thumbwheels if you look closer, so no way is that some bargain-basement bridge.

If you read the description for it they even go to lengths to avoid knotted wood when they manufacture that kit, so it's definitely a cut above a lot of the other kits out there. No doubt there are better kits out there, but not at £120 there isn't, I've certainly never seen one as good as that one for £120.

Another give-away that it's not made by the same manufacturer is that Gear4Music stock the whole range and there's not even a small-scale kit among them. If it were the same company then the small-scale kit would be listed too, but there isn't one.

There's actually quite a few companies out there make these kits and all are not equal, and I reckon that one is the best you can get before you start straying into big money territory and there is no way I am doing that. As Danswift pointed out, guitars aren't something that are easy to setup even for experts, so I'm under no illusion here, but I will at least invest in one of those cheap Luthier tool kits to set it up if I end up going the kit route.

I'm still looking at the ESP and Ibanez guitars though, cause I suppose I could always customise those guitars as well. It would mean flatting the finish back to matt, having some custom Letraset graphics printed in opaque white, rubbing them on to the body and putting clear resin over it, but it would work and it would work perfectly.

The body on the Ibanez I linked to actually has more body real estate than the kit does due to the different design, and I did see a video yesterday that almost made my click the buy button so I still might go for the Ibanez in black.

I haven't a bloody clue what this dude was saying, cause I don't speak the language. But watch from 3:24 and see the smirk of satisfaction creep across his face when he stops playing, cause that's exactly what I did after I hearing it. I think it's the smirk of approval, lol!!!

Play from 3:24 - see the satisfaction after play:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrZqlL1p8IQ


Jaytreaze: You must be joking bruh, no way I'm entering a music shop and picking-up a giuitar, I'd empty the store of customers in ten seconds flat! Windows would shatter and there'd be hoards of customers running out of the building, clutching their ears crying ...

"Oh my FUCKING God - PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!!!"

Danswift wrote:The difference between single coils and humbuckers are humbuckers consist of 2 single coil pickups wired together.

Haha, I knew that! I was talking about the difference in sound, haha... could have been more clear lol!

sp-user wrote: If you look at the brige alone it is actually a very sophisticated one cause it not only has the adjuster screws, it also has a second row of thumbwheels if you look closer, so no way is that some bargain-basement bridge.

Yes, that does look like a really good quality bridge/tailpiece. Back when that was invented it was the "Floyd Rose" whammybar - means that not only can you adjust the string action really well, but the strings are "locked" at both ends so you can do what Steve Vai does here. Was super-impressive to my 13yr old self

Jaytreaze wrote:...cuts on your hands...

I know, right?!! Very teenage-angst and oh-so punk! But then...not really cause it was a f#Kn Squier! hahaa

l i f wrote:... means that not only can you adjust the string action really well, but the strings are "locked" at both ends so you can do what Steve Vai does here.

It's a wonder the strings didn't slice through his fingers like razors ...

On a more amusing note about cheap Vs professional guitars, I remember watching this video about a year or so back, and found myself agreeing with a lot of the commenters preferring the tone of the cheaper guitar. As Chapper's says, the Schecter is beautiful guitar. I'm sure it's better in almost every possible way, but unfortunately it failed for me in the most important aspect of all, that being the sound of the output - lol!!!

Just in case anyone thinks I'm a total retard (ok, fine you all do), I'm well aware the Schecter he's comparing it to is a very fine instrument, and purists will no dounbt cringe at a video like this, but it's defnitely food for thought when comparing 'cheap' guitars to way more expensive ones.

To make the comparison even more amusing, the cheap guitar isn't even a full-size one, lol, it's one of the smaller 'Minion' range from Jackson, he actually refers to it as a "kids" guitar although personally I don't agree with that. I know a lot of people prefer the smaller scale, I've read it a few times now.

Interesting video and definitely food for thought:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FV50xqZ7Ic