opinions on loop packs and shiznit

[balazs]

the idea that artists like madlib can just straight rip cause he's madlib and he found it is just bullshit.

I'm not really too familiar with a lot of Dilla and Madlib's music, so I cant really be a fan of theirs. But it does take a lot of effort to dig thru the crates and many times it takes a good precise ear to spot a loop. If that wasnt true then there would be a lot more good music out there.

If you can honestly look at your music and be proud, that is all that matters in the end. I am proud of the time I spend diggin, and listening to records, imagining what could be done with those records, and doing it.

[Rob P]

but if you dig it yourself you have more leeway, i.e. Madlib uses long bits sometimes but then he found them, so it's cool.

Yeh i see ur point there. but in my opinion, the idea that artists like madlib can just straight rip cause he's madlib and he found it is just bullshit. Straight loops are looked down apon, yet i've found on plenty of occasions our favorite producers doing almost that...barely chopped at all. But no body seems to say anything about it cause you risk "disrespecting" the producer and being flamed. But what respect needs to be given to the producer, if its he who is disrespecting the artist who wrote the original sample?
just before you indulge in any flaming for me saying this, i do respect madlib as the best in the game, as well as dilla, and pre, and the rest. but i think they too rip loops sometimes
example...

Dilla - Gobstopper, off of the classic Donuts release.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG-XalZxVr4

Luther Ingram's To the other man, the sample dilla used for the beat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-FR-4yViEM

Horns drop at 2:07, looped in dillas 'Gobstopper' . I guess it shits me when people are like "damn, dilla really put so much effort into this, hes amaising!" . All the effort lies on the digging...not putting that down either...but dont say that dilla did well when he made this song, cause he really didnt. he sped up and looped a pre recorded song.
i will add, this is one example of a dilla beat...i know he doesnt always do this, he does chop he does make some raw shit. so dont go calling me a hater, cause im not. and this is just my opinion.

I hear what you sayin and no you're not a hater
It took me a while to understand what makes a dope hiphop beat and a 2,4 or 8 loop are what it takes really.
Most of the classic beats are loops!!The problem was or is,that hiphop was being attacked especially from jazz musicians,from being too simple but the New York City school board removed all music budgets in the early 70's so the kids(Kool Herc,Bambattaa etc...) took it to the streets and it's a dj culture before everything else and it's about finding the hottest break and Madlib,Dilla,Premier,they understand that and I appreciate what they do even more now....
I read an interview with Roy Hargrove and he said that he tried to make hiphop tracks but couldn't because he was adding way too many notes and he said that creating a dope beat is all about finding in a crappy record,2 bars that can be played for minutes...
He was saying that himself and many can't do this,they don't have the ear and made an interesting comparison in hiphop is more like wearing jeans and a tshirt and jazz, a suit.
They're both tight depending of the circumstances and It's really about capturing a groove that you won't get sick of hearing.
In fact,a lot of Dilla's beat were 2 bar loops!! Hiphop is all about being creative and simple.
In fact that Luther Ingram loop,Dilla didn't pick out the intro,he found it later and that might appear easy but a lot of producers wouldn't have the ear to find that.

[iG9]

Rob P: interesting & well put.

[Rob P]

Thanks IG9,
I picked up a few bits here and there and the website of Red Bull Music is full of great interviews as well...

[HomeMadeInstrumentals]

well, i have to say, im very fuking suprised no body found my last post as a personal offence and started any kind of "no man fuck you cnt dilla is da best fk youuuuu ur a gay fag" bs...i guess these forums are slightly more mature then that lol.
i understand iG9 your point of view, and i suppose in a way i cant really argue against it, being a producer myself i naturaly see it from that angle as well. And Rob P you put that very well, i guess there is a way old records looped can have a certain skill to it, i guess its up to me to find a tasteful ballance between looping and chopping the peice.
Could you post that Roy Hargrove interview? That sounds very interesting seeing the artform from one who isn't as experienced with it!
summing up...i dont want the scene to become complaicent with loops, particularly those who have earnt a rep and feel they can now get away with lazyness and still get the respect. I dont just eat up what ever some body makes just cause they are reguarded as a 'legend', although usually they have earnt that title.

[jbl]

F.U.MAN!
sorry i'm just trying to act like i'm still young and immature.
the great thing about music is you're free to do it any way you want. actually looping is a major part of almost all music. whether you are playing guitar or grabbing a good sample. i really hate when someone says '.38 special is real music not like that squarepusher shit where they just play the same sound over and over again'. maybe squarepusher is a bad example but you get what i'm saying. if you only use loop packs and never add effects, never cut it up, etc... that could be pretty lame. but if you can get people to move their ass with a loop pack, more power to ya.

[Rob P]

@JBL,I couldn't believe it when Dizzie Rascal had a hit with "Fix up,Look sharp"
He pretty much looped up a megapopular breakbeat and rapped like a maniac on it!!
At first ,I was like "it's garbage!!",but now I find this track brilliant!!

@Homemadeinstrumentals,I read the Roy Hargrove interview in a European French mag(I'm bilingual) but I'll try find the link which might have an english translation if I can find it.
And btw you raised good points,flipping a sample is equally important if not more.
Look at Primo,he'll sample some crazy ish,then add drums and the chorus is almost always some scratched words.It's a simple formula but so effective that everyone and their mom bit his style

[dman5000]

im like 50 50 on this issue... one of the guys i jam with regularly straight doesnt give a fuck about using a loop from the computer but i think its ok as long as you mess with it to the point that its your own thing... dont quote me on this but like 8 years ago my friend whos real into drawing told me that if youre trying to redraw someones thing for yourself to use you need to change 11 things and i think he told me his art teacher told him that.

[adru]

i see this post kinda shifted from drum sounds/breaks,to sampling as a whole..i have no problem with getting drum sounds from any source-whether that be original wax,cd's,re-issues,comps,bought samples ,whatever-even other hip hop songs(as long as they're layered and made unrecogonizable)..but personally i would never,ever fuck with some pre-recorded instrument loops,& actually i don't even really know what the hell a loop pack even is,i've never messed with any of that stuff at all.to me its just lazy,no fun..and honestly just a synthetic attempt at making hip hop music.
my favorite part of making beats is just digging through records and finding that sample that makes you say "oh shit!"nothing beats that,and i almost enjoy going through wax & the occasional cd to find new samples more than making the actual beats-one of the reasons i'm not super educated in the technical aspects of production.
the looping/chopping thing has many different aspects to it-but once again-its the final product that matters-and for hip hop the most important thing is to set the best mood possible for an mc,whether its a straight loop,or chopped to fragments.and like a few people have said,beat making was derived from looping stuff up,and taking small breaks in a record-loops will always have their place in hip hop,as long as its done right-meaning some pretty obscure shit and not a straight jack of a once popular song.
when it comes to my stuff-at this point if i use anything resembling a loop,i have to do at least a couple things to restructure it or it just doesnt feel right to me.when it comes to madlib/dilla type looped joints- which they still do/did only every once and a while-its just about finding a sample so ill that theres no point in doing anything to it..and its more about just using something that either no ones discovered yet,or never thought to use-and the work that went into finding it.
bottom line is a dope beat is a dope beat. theres all kinds of different approaches-lib and dilla both chop(ped) and loop(ed)pete rock will chop,or layer loops with filters and chops,preem-while having a "simple" formula pretty much strictly chops and really hasnt used a complete loop since about 1993.its whatevers right to you,and whatevers right for an mc.

[HomeMadeInstrumentals]

yeh i think adru summed that all up quite well. i guess this is a subject that's gonna be as long lasting as the Vinyl vs CDs arguement DJs always have (One fuking massive can of worms!). Eitherway, adru put it well.

[drewzle]

Straight loops are looked down apon, yet i've found on plenty of occasions our favorite producers doing almost that...barely chopped at all.

word man, i've always had this dilemma when finding some of my favourite beats were just straight looped (often with drums/bass already present too).

i also think Adru summed it up well in the above post - i'm personally not happy using any loop, it needs chooping into single hits then a decent re-arranging before i'll use it. that way, it's more creative AND challenging, and whatever you end up with will be unique.

[DJ Aerial]

using premade loops is very likely to result in music that lacks any of your personal character. finding your voice, expressing something that is recognizably 'you', is what the journey is all about.
i can make a grown man weep with my guitar, but having that same impact with a machine is very hard. i'm getting closer though, and i hope you all are too.