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 Post subject: On the fence
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:04 pm 
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Maaannnn,

I've taken a looong ass break from my beloved SP-404sx. After a few years, I've decided to get my creative flow back again.

Buuuut... I've totally forgotten how to use this thing! (As I only recorded samples, that was pretty much it.) I tried to create my own beats, but little to no success. I always ran into an obstacle when trying to line up in sync with my drums and samples and overlaying too many samples too much i think? (Is that a thing?) Grrrr it was annoying!

Anyhoo, I've decided to give it another go, I've also just recently downloaded some sample packs with Drums, Hi-Hats etc recently too.

Peeps be saying 'READ THE MANUAL!' And I get that, but I'm more of a visual learner and learn quicker if someone was showing me the ropes. I always seem to hit a brick wall with timing my drums in sync loop which would, if I remember, go out of sync after the first set of loop, (if that makes sense? It's being awhile!) And then my sample(s) that were layered on top of that would just be out of timing and I couldn't get a timey beat flow going that I could actually bop my head to! What am I doing wrong?


I'm probs sounding like such a dweeb on here, but we all started. I dunno if it has something to do with the BPM or what, but it's kinda confusing. I'm heavily inspired by the likes of Ohbliv, Akeedro, Ahwlee, etc. just to give you guys a marker on what i'm trying to create, but obviously add my own flare, but give credit to my peers/mentors.

So if any of you guys could help me out and point me back in the right direction i'd greatly appreciate it folks.


Last edited by Enlifened on Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where to start!?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:42 am 
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Enlifened wrote:
So if any of you guys could help me out and point me back in the right direction i'd greatly appreciate it folks.

I hope you take this the right way bruh, but honestly, ever since I was a kid I was always taught that the best place to start (musically at least) is as follows:

Let's start at the very beginning
A very good place to start
When you read you begin with "A-B-C"
When you sing you begin with "Do-Re-Mi"


Instructional video attached bruh: :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnBMAEA3AM


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start!?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:07 pm 
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Nah man, no offence taken. Some things are the simplest way to put things into perspective, we tend to overthink what is suppose to be the 'right way'.

All feedback is appreciated ma dude.
Thank you for reaching out and posting. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start!?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:35 pm 
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In all honesty, and to take your post more seriously, I think as with anything in life, practice makes perfect. I'm in a worse situation than yourself musically, cause I've never made a Hip-Hop track in my life, so even when I finally get my hands on an SP-404MKII, I'm in for quite a bit of practice I think!

I think it's important to really get your head around your gear before doing anything though.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start!?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:41 pm 
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Yeah, being looking at the MKII just recently, i dunno but in my opinion feels a bit overkill. Going back to simplicity, i like the 404-SX better i think due to that function.

I feel you could spend hours on the MKII with the range of effects and layering them that you end up not actually creating anything and just end up with filled pads with mixed effects on them, unless you know what you are doing beforehand.

I find you can be more focused with the 404-SX jus sayin.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start!?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:00 am 
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Id say a good way to start is try re learn the sample process by just sampling drums, don’t worry about any chops, don’t worry about processing,, then mess about with resampling and sequencing to just make drum loops. You’ll pretty much have the foundations of using the sx in that process there and will work out if u prefer resample or sequence :) after that I feel like the rest will fall to you naturally and you’ll remember what you knew :) drop another message here if u try anything

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 Post subject: Re: On the fence
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:49 pm 
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I'm currently having trouble with adding my drums onto the sample(s) I found and layering them. I also seem to notice sample cut out towards the end, sort of cuts off when it begins to loop again, like a hiccup at the end and then the sample ends up being like half a second behind the drums when it comes back round, if that makes sense? Like dead air.

Dunno how to tweak this, start and end time perhaps? But not sure how to reach the end of the sample.

I've noticed recently how meticulous you have to be with the SP404sx workflow (Good & Bad) that I end up spending over an hour nearly just to get some sort of beat going, it's a bit tedious really so much time goes by, i mean I'm having fun with it, but I'm starting to consider buying the MKII now, as the workflow is seamless and seems to do such much things quicker than the 404SX would take. And considering I'm just starting out again (kinda) I think it would be better for me to learn again on a completely different system with different workflow.

I'd still keep my 404SX though, as i do like the more linear focus it seems to give me in terms of being straight with what I want to create and get out of it, where as the MKII is soo more versatile. Will see.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to start!?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:22 pm 
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Enlifened wrote:
Yeah, being looking at the MKII just recently, i dunno but in my opinion feels a bit overkill. Going back to simplicity, i like the 404-SX better i think due to that function.

I feel you could spend hours on the MKII with the range of effects and layering them that you end up not actually creating anything and just end up with filled pads with mixed effects on them, unless you know what you are doing beforehand.

I find you can be more focused with the 404-SX jus sayin.

Sure, no way is the MKII as intuative as the OG, SX or A, but for me the restrictions on those models were unacceptable. I bought an 'A' brand new and ended-up returning it, but I still think it has a good workflow and it left me wanting to see a successor, and the MKII certainly fixes all that I was complaining about on the 'A' and offers a lot more besides - so should be good!


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 Post subject: Re: On the fence
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:27 pm 
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You using re sample or sequence? The hiccup is timing, that’s more practice, if resampling try cut the loop or play the pattern differently until you twig it. That’s why I’d say try just a drum loop first, try work out what timing of hitting your pads will lead to the perfect drum loop (or do same with 4 simple chops playing out per bar of the beat to make the loop) The same will happen on the sequencer with quantise off depending on your own timing but that can be worked on :)

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 Post subject: Re: On the fence
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:23 pm 
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Using re-sample at the mo. Tried pattern sequencer and it just confuses me with trying to find the right BPM and metronome. I think most use re-sample method anyway. The workflow, although tedious, works.

So basically I should just re-sample the sample at a cut off point at the end but time it just enough so that when it comes back round, for another run it doesn't stutter at the end, right? And then tweak if need to with start/end button if needed?
For me personally I choose to work on the sample first and then hit the drums. Cause I feel sometimes if i get a good drum beat going beforehand, it might not match up to the sample I'm trying to add it to. That's just how I roll though.

I think the 404SX has a problem where you can't just play the sample and then add the drums on top whilst it is being played. It seems to cut off after a limitation on how many pads can be played at once when re-sampling, I think I've noticed. The MKII doesn't appear to have this problem as far as I know.

Thanks for the input. :)


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 Post subject: Re: On the fence
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:25 pm 
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Switch all drum and basses to mono, play samples at stereo and you’ll get around that cutting off problem, can’t remember the exact term but it’s to do w the polyphony limit or some shit and I think that works around it. Maybe using resample end the recording LONGER than needed so u have empty space to play around with setting and end mark :)

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 Post subject: Re: Where to start!?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:35 pm 
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Quote:
Sure, no way is the MKII as intuative as the OG, SX or A, but for me the restrictions on those models were unacceptable. I bought an 'A' brand new and ended-up returning it, but I still think it has a good workflow and it left me wanting to see a successor, and the MKII certainly fixes all that I was complaining about on the 'A' and offers a lot more besides - so should be good!


Yes, I'm already considering this too. Now looking more into it, the workflow is almost seamless compared to the others. And I need that to save time on working with my beats, I find trying to critique my samples and drums etc, can take me over a good hour or more to get it 'right', where as the MKII is done in much less time! And isn't as half as a ball-ache of a job to do! So yeah, no brainer really. But I think me still working on the 404SX will give me some indicators and insights, whilst I'm waiting for the MKII.


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