Need some pointers for moving beyond basic sampling

Om_Audio · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:05 am

Nope, I get it and thanks for elaborating. The lack of good pitch adjust on the 404 is frustrating at times but I am starting to see what you mean about developing an ear for key/tempo/feel. I found some just by chopping classic jazz songs I love and made some random discoveries that some would fit together. sometimes just chopping is fun enough and discoveries come later.
thanks again- look forward to hearing your new tracks.
C

pele253 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:47 am **Posts:** 52

sounds like a question i'd have back in 1989 on an sp1200

Jovi · **Joined:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:16 am **Posts:** 52

Ill Green wrote:

The next level of sampling is already here. Its just that only four or five people know about it and experimenting with it as we speak. Its been around for long time but never was focus in sampling.

Ok, enough amp up intro. Time to explain the next level in sampling.

The use of Auto-tune and Audio-to-MIDI. Combine those and you'll be on your way to wizardry in sampling.

Audio-to-MIDI can take a guitar riff and transform it into MIDI notes. Then take those notes and play your own instrument. Instantly the guitar sample is YOUR sample because you played it, all you did was sample the notes

Its recreating samples you sampled. And no learning keys because the notes is already there, all you doing is tracing over the sample.

Then take Auto-Tune, and change the key of those notes if you like. Maybe a certain key aint hitting right or you prefer the 4th measure to end on a G# instead of D minor.

Its all out there, get your head open and explore.

I like the sound of that! neat!

I'm just wondering were you get autotune from? From what I got from the manual it seemed as though the midi was automatically assigned to transpose the samples up and down notes notes based on the keys you hit.

I'm going to get my usb to midi converter if so (keyrig 49)

otherwise I'm curious about the auto tune....how is it that you achieve this?

is it a plug in on a computer that you sample from? would love to know!

Nosmo King · **Joined:** Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:49 am **Posts:** 112

Jovi wrote:

Ill Green wrote:

The next level of sampling is already here. Its just that only four or five people know about it and experimenting with it as we speak. Its been around for long time but never was focus in sampling.

Ok, enough amp up intro. Time to explain the next level in sampling.

The use of Auto-tune and Audio-to-MIDI. Combine those and you'll be on your way to wizardry in sampling.

Audio-to-MIDI can take a guitar riff and transform it into MIDI notes. Then take those notes and play your own instrument. Instantly the guitar sample is YOUR sample because you played it, all you did was sample the notes

Its recreating samples you sampled. And no learning keys because the notes is already there, all you doing is tracing over the sample.

Then take Auto-Tune, and change the key of those notes if you like. Maybe a certain key aint hitting right or you prefer the 4th measure to end on a G# instead of D minor.

Its all out there, get your head open and explore.

I like the sound of that! neat!

I'm just wondering were you get autotune from? From what I got from the manual it seemed as though the midi was automatically assigned to transpose the samples up and down notes notes based on the keys you hit.

I'm going to get my usb to midi converter if so (keyrig 49)

otherwise I'm curious about the auto tune....how is it that you achieve this?

is it a plug in on a computer that you sample from? would love to know!

im certain that the guy is joking man. what hes talking about isnt even sampling it all becomes midi

it does not sound cool at all i dunno wtf youre talking about :lol:

EarlGrey · **Joined:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:46 am **Posts:** 189

Turn your 2 bar loops into 4/8/16 or 32 beat chops.

Then map them out on your pads. Then make sure the pads cut each other off.

After that it's all about rhythm.

start playing the pads over a drum loop for instance and play random pads in the right rhythm. Now create completely new structures. With the right ear and rhythm feel it's all a matter of trial and error.

Check this flip I did off Curtis Mayfield's 'the makings of you' for instance to get the basic idea.

https://soundcloud.com/fosho/15-in-the-making

Jovi · **Joined:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:16 am **Posts:** 52

Nosmo King wrote:

Jovi wrote:

Ill Green wrote:

The next level of sampling is already here. Its just that only four or five people know about it and experimenting with it as we speak. Its been around for long time but never was focus in sampling.

Ok, enough amp up intro. Time to explain the next level in sampling.

The use of Auto-tune and Audio-to-MIDI. Combine those and you'll be on your way to wizardry in sampling.

Audio-to-MIDI can take a guitar riff and transform it into MIDI notes. Then take those notes and play your own instrument. Instantly the guitar sample is YOUR sample because you played it, all you did was sample the notes

Its recreating samples you sampled. And no learning keys because the notes is already there, all you doing is tracing over the sample.

Then take Auto-Tune, and change the key of those notes if you like. Maybe a certain key aint hitting right or you prefer the 4th measure to end on a G# instead of D minor.

Its all out there, get your head open and explore.

I like the sound of that! neat!

I'm just wondering were you get autotune from? From what I got from the manual it seemed as though the midi was automatically assigned to transpose the samples up and down notes notes based on the keys you hit.

I'm going to get my usb to midi converter if so (keyrig 49)

otherwise I'm curious about the auto tune....how is it that you achieve this?

is it a plug in on a computer that you sample from? would love to know!

im certain that the guy is joking man. what hes talking about isnt even sampling it all becomes midi

it does not sound cool at all i dunno wtf youre talking about :lol:

oh phooey!

although it does make sense, having a chop that you merely adjust the pitch to doesn't make it not sampling...hehehe

auto tune....didn't understand that part myself but imagined it had something to do with adjusting the pitch..

I'm not ready to write this off yet

Om_Audio · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:06 pm

This reminds me of one of the many reasons I love my RS7000- it can slice up audio and has a great Loop Remix feature which shuffles and manipulates the slices- creates awesome results and works on sliced audio or just midi tracks. Relates to the above idea of having audio slices controlled by midi. I also have a MIDI guitar and you could play samples with that too. Just diferent ways of interacting with sound and music.

Jovi · **Joined:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:16 am **Posts:** 52

ahhhh.....

I was imagining that what the midi controller did was played a certain chop.

say pad 1 was hit and selected. What I imagined was the different keys on the midi controller all playing that sample '1' but in transposed pitch.

ex: "C" normal pitch, "C#" half step up, "B" half step down and so on...

would be a pretty nifty feature imo, if you were able to do so in a way that didn't distort the quality (like the sp's pitch shift)

it'd be neat if there was a modding community that played with stuff like this.

Om_Audio · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:23 pm

Jovi wrote:

I was imagining that what the midi controller did was played a certain chop.

say pad 1 was hit and selected. What I imagined was the different keys on the midi controller all playing that sample '1' but in transposed pitch.

No, all MIDI does is control things- it has no capability of algorithms or anything like that. Basically if you want to press a button or do something that a machine can already do you can prob do it with MIDI.

For example, I can plug a MIDI keyboard into the RS and play a sample as you imagine, but only because that is already what the RS can do. MIDI only pushes the buttons virtually. The other thing about MIDI is you can control things directly without having to do anything on the other machine like going into menus or pushing buttons to get into the right mode or whatever.

For example I have a Korg PadKontrol set up for my 404SX and I can play all the pads in all the banks without touching the SP- it is sitting there on Bank A the whole time as if nothing were happening.
If you have filter sweep or effect parameter buried in there you can set up an external MIDI keyboard or other controller to adjust it.

The M-Audio Oxygen and many others have knobs and sliders on them that you can set up to do this sort of thing. Also like on the 404 you have no velocity on the pads but with an external controller you can play the pads w velocity.

and so on and such and so forth...
:mrgreen:

C

Ill Green · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:27 pm

Nosmo King wrote:

Jovi wrote:

Ill Green wrote:

The next level of sampling is already here. Its just that only four or five people know about it and experimenting with it as we speak. Its been around for long time but never was focus in sampling.

Ok, enough amp up intro. Time to explain the next level in sampling.

The use of Auto-tune and Audio-to-MIDI. Combine those and you'll be on your way to wizardry in sampling.

Audio-to-MIDI can take a guitar riff and transform it into MIDI notes. Then take those notes and play your own instrument. Instantly the guitar sample is YOUR sample because you played it, all you did was sample the notes

Its recreating samples you sampled. And no learning keys because the notes is already there, all you doing is tracing over the sample.

Then take Auto-Tune, and change the key of those notes if you like. Maybe a certain key aint hitting right or you prefer the 4th measure to end on a G# instead of D minor.

Its all out there, get your head open and explore.

I like the sound of that! neat!

I'm just wondering were you get autotune from? From what I got from the manual it seemed as though the midi was automatically assigned to transpose the samples up and down notes notes based on the keys you hit.

I'm going to get my usb to midi converter if so (keyrig 49)

otherwise I'm curious about the auto tune....how is it that you achieve this?

is it a plug in on a computer that you sample from? would love to know!

im certain that the guy is joking man. what hes talking about isnt even sampling it all becomes midi

it does not sound cool at all i dunno wtf youre talking about :lol:

I don't know what the fuck you talking about. Its real. Audio-to-MIDI is whats going on. In fact Roland invented it in the '80s with their Guitar-to-MIDI devices. Its just that no one thought to use it in sampling until now. Its AUDIO-TO-MIDI for christ sake! How is that not related to sampling? By now, you should know how to strip and filter tracks, and when you have extracted lets say a piano piece, the MIDI notes are layed out in Melodyne or Ableton. You can take a violin VST and trace over the piano piece.

I say auto-tune because I've turned happy folk samples into dark funeral music. It really alters the notes of samples.

Welcome to the next level.

Jovi · **Joined:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:16 am **Posts:** 52

ok that makes sense! thanks for clarifying that man!

pele253 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:47 am **Posts:** 52

why not just play the notes out....instead of going through all that trouble...

Nosmo King · **Joined:** Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:49 am **Posts:** 112

pele253 wrote:

why not just play the notes out....instead of going through all that trouble...

exactly! youre not sampling man youre just taking the chord sequences/melodies

ableton 9 has a feature where you can sing in a melody and it will put it to MIDI

youre right its some future crazyness but its not sampling man

Om_Audio · **Posted:** Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:36 pm

Kris - KRiS - White wrote:

listen to the greats .. Pete Rock ,Premier,Madlib , Dilla , all the Tribe productions .. break apart the elements in your mind and how you think they did it .. i take what equipment they used into considerration and imagine how it was possible .. then apply the techniques i've assumed to my own stuff ..

for example Pete Rock CL Smooth .. most of the early work was done on the SP1200 .. loose drums straight laying down 1 layer at a time .. probly 1/2 bar sample chops

Gangstarr .. MPC60 .. limited sampling time so very short samples mainly fitted into a 2 bar pattern .. maybe explains the choppy approach Premo established signature

..

if you learn a bit of classic music theory .. it will help in your formulation of pattern structures concerning notes triggerred during a sequence (beat)

that is all

great post

Jovi · **Joined:** Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:16 am **Posts:** 52

Kalaba wrote:

Turn your 2 bar loops into 4/8/16 or 32 beat chops.

Then map them out on your pads. Then make sure the pads cut each other off.

After that it's all about rhythm.

start playing the pads over a drum loop for instance and play random pads in the right rhythm. Now create completely new structures. With the right ear and rhythm feel it's all a matter of trial and error.

Check this flip I did off Curtis Mayfield's 'the makings of you' for instance to get the basic idea.

https://soundcloud.com/fosho/15-in-the-making

nice beats! by pads cancelling each other out do you mean in the patttern sequencer or when playing the samples normally (ex: resample method beat making)?

because I noticed the sequencer being weird like that a kick for example from pattern 1 showing up in pattern 2 when queued back to back.

Otherwise when doing the resample method beat making, being able to have certain pads cancel others out would be really useful to me...haha!

Need some pointers for moving beyond basic sampling

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