Seamless Looping - How?

[hurlingdervish]

^^^
classic effective technique, i would be lost without doing this

also consider once the song is done you might not be able to hear the clicks, being drowned out and such. that doesn't really solve the problem but it works a lot of the time, unless of course you are doing one takes and live performing

[Arndt]

Honestly, I'm sorry, I don't know, what you mean by 'tail sounding'.. Maybe you mean delay and such coming along with the pad? But, as I understand the whole problem, no matter how the sound is played or recorded, in the end we always get start/end points which have to fit together by amplitude and/or frequency.

When I try it the way you described it, then at the end of the first counting sequence (without recording) I'm still playing exactly the same thing as I did when starting to play. Maybe some delay sound is added, but that makes no difference relating the fact, that there is always a jump of frequency and amplitude between start and end. So when I finish the second sequence and stop recording, there will be the same discrepance of amplitude and frequency, isn't it?

I used to have the KP3 and had a lot of fun with it, but also had the same issues as I have with the SP404.

[cartesia]

the 2nd time around the beginning and end should be same amplitude..
for example, a constant droning pad sound -

so like this:


...................................................Start Loop........................................End Loop
(press notes, hold down)--------------------------------------------->(release)

amplitude after the initial pressing of the notes should settle down to a certain level, after the attack/decay portion of the envelope is finished - it will settle to whatever level sustain is set to (if you're using ADSR envelope)

you can do it with melodies/changing chords as well - make the loop when the sequence plays through for a 2nd time.

[Dr. Tad Winslow]

Thanks a lot! That's good info, encouraging me to take a closer look to the MPC. But I'd like to know one thing, that I've forgotten to mention in my previous post: is the MPC able to add a very short fade in/out to a given sample? That would be a method to create seamless loops out of samples, which are already trimmed to a specific length. With a small amount of timestretching that would result in a loop with a specific tempo including the crossfade.

Actually I'm not sure if I got the whole thing right, but with my SP-404 I can set the tempo and thus the length of the sample before recording. It's just the possibility to crossfade or to add a very short fade in/out what's missing (which results in clicks and crackles).

So the MPC would be an alternative in that respect, if that fading thing was possible.

I'm not sure that the MPC has a specific "fade in/out" settings like you're asking about (maybe it does and I don't even know...), but with the JJOS you have full control over ADSR (attack, decay, sustain, release) settings and what not, so I assume you could accomplish that by adjusting the attack and decay settings...

Sometimes I do loop based stuff with different loops from different sources, and sometimes I do heavy chop based stuff, and as long as I chop/trim properly from the begining and I never have problem with seamless looping or clicking with the MPC...

[kel]

just throw a fat-ass kick drum over that click!

[IIIII]

just throw a fat-ass kick drum over that click!

YES
or you can loop at the moment you want a snare.
or sometimes if im having trouble i will add some reverb. then loop, and resample while controlling the reverb, looping about 3 times. i go in to chop it, and start my mark on the second loop, so i catch the sound of the end of the reverb(does this make sense?) from the first loop. its seamless and usually smooths out any artifacts that were showing up/ turns them into a pleasant sound

[snowglobe]

I just got my 404sx 3 days ago, and i use it in conjunction with a kp3 i picked up last year and a microKorg i got this summer. What i'm finding works perfect is to just devote a whole bank to the one sample you want to make. make 4 identical samples one after the other without playing back but just focusing on making the timing perfect in regards to pressing the record button. Then listen to those 4 and see how well you timed it, if you press the record button at the precise moment the sample will be seamless. The trick is its hard to get perfect, so it may take upwards of 12 takes to get down, but the result is great! I also use a free metronome i found via Google by putting a small pair of headphones over one ear beneath my studio headphones. Even though I played drums for 8years I still can get off tempo a tiny bit while sampling, and that can mess a whole song up, without you even knowing that's what is doing it. That tail sound is really important too. I'm enamored with delay effects so the end of the sample in question will have all the delay built up but the beginning won't. To get around that just begin sampling while you are performing the sample your self. Play it once and then sample as you start back at the beginning, Its easier with a keyboard than a guitar haha, but on the KP i would press the buttons with my nose while playing and that worked awesome! good luck mate

[Arndt]

Thank you, snowglobe, that's quite interesting, how you do it. I also had the KP3 once, but sold it. My 404 works allright all in all, and I will try your method, although it seems a bit memory consuming. But at the same time that may be a chance to combine initially identical samples, which I can alter a bit with effects to get interesting, changing, evolving samples for my ambient stuff etc. ..

[PHeMoX]

Even though I played drums for 8years I still can get off tempo a tiny bit while sampling, and that can mess a whole song up, without you even knowing that's what is doing it.

I know exactly what you're saying here, but you should probably adjust start (and end) points in such cases. Someone that has drummed for 8 years will really be on time, unless perhaps pressing the pads didn't quite gave a direct result. (Yep, that sometimes happens, but I can live with it. )

I'm sure if an actual drummer tries to make some proper 'lagging drums', while still being on time in a very natural way, having a proper start point will define the whole groove you will get.

[Dr Van Nostrand]

yeah i don't get why you would want to struggle with pressing record at precisely the right times to record something in, when you could record more than you need and try to press mark in the same exact precise manner, than you can use the start end points to change stuff, to me its like truncating, why do it when you might need more to work with later??