since people wanna talk about who's over and underrated. how bout puttin cats on blast who take credit for other people production.

1. im a heavy tribe called quest fan, but qtip did jaydee kinda dirty on the janet jackson track.

2. dr.dre has all these doods like focus and numerous other cats doing the production.

anybody else know any producers getting over

half man half amazin i just found out was done by grap lova instead of pete rock!
http://www.cratekings.com/grap-luva-7-m ... rate+Kings)

i just saw that vid the other day of grap on the 1200, such dope fuckin beats in there, i love how he said pete was trippin and was like right off the bat, i gotta change the drum sounds, not the pattern just the sounds.....and that one beat that he said he felt was like the equivalent to a premo find, i could loop that one up for quiiiiite a while.....as for the topic at hand........fuck i got nothin to contribute

lol Dre is the worst with his beat sweat shop operation

wow this is dope find. grap luva should be on that underrated list so many dope beats. that half man half amazin joint was my favorite on there. so all pete did was switch the drums sounds and got production credit. now u gonna have me searchin for that rob o album and ini now.

haha its all good. yeah grap luva is crazy definitely wish he got more credit.

hahaha producer sweat shop. i wonder if the pay is good.lol

haha, yeah that's the main reason why i have no respect at all for him, whatever did come out of his own hands... then again, being a producer (industry sense of the word) is all about putting your stamp on something, selecting, organising... moneyed command over creative skills, basically.

"producer" = not equal to "creator"

though i like to think hip hop has always been more about DIY creation than about what money can buy, that's a disputable fact. but in any case, taking all the credit because your name has producer after it is bullshit pure and simple, i agree on that.

yo theres one track on that INI album where pete rock says "dj scratch in the house"
on center of attention... there isnt any scratching so that makes me think... did he really do it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_%26_F ... l_Classics

the track listing on wiki and Grap did do some joints on those albums...

even dilla on welcome to detroit used other cats like Kriggins (soon to blow big time!) and dwele... that remain one of my fav albums because of its diversity...

Diddy is good for that. I dont know how cats can do that. I have too much pride to take credit for something I didn't do.

I knew Grap made Step Up because in the end Pete Rock is like "Grap Luva on the beat....and my name is Pete.....won't be out till next week (or something like that I'm not sure lol)....Peace"

The one where he shouts out DJ Scratch, I just took it to mean that guy made the beat but it is suspect that that isn't indicated on wikipedia lol. Which song is that again? I can hear Pete's voice but I can't pull out which song it is. I want to do my rachet "hip hop analyst" analysis on it and see if it sounds like a Pete Rock beat or not.

It makes sense about "Don't You Love it?" now though. I always thought that song didn't really fit with the rest of the album. I guess because the producer doesn't have that Rock/Luva family blood running through his veins lol.

Anyway thanks for reminding me of this album. This past spring I would blast "Think Twice" and "Center of Attention" all the time while doing my grocery shopping. It's nice at sunset with a nice breeze coming through the car. Lately I've been playing all of the beat tapes I get off here from you guys though so it's okay.

Thats the misconception of being a producer nowadays. People think it means the beatmaker in general. But in a studio, the producer is like a director of a movie, he just calls the shots and committed to a vision. Steven Speilbergs makes movies but no one gives credit to the camera men that shot the angles or the foley guys for bringing sound effects except maybe on the small lettering at the end of a flick.

To a producer, a beatmaker is like part of the band. They just provide the talent that a producer demands for a record. And in the industry, thats the way they see things too. A beatmaker makes the beat, but its the producer that puts a rapper on it and works with the engineers and labels so that beat can see the light of day.

On a last note, I believe if any artist contributed something to the music, then credit should be given where its due.

Just saying

@ ill green-In hip hop music- I think you're confusing "executive producer" with "producer"-- obviously in hip hop the producer(s) is traditionally the person or small team of people (ie neptunes,heatmakers,etc) making the beat. It's the engineers that will a lot of times make any tweaks on a beat- not a "producer" working with a "beatmaker".Diddy taking the credit for someone elses work is not the same as quincy jones writing a composition and directing a band or conducting a string section-or the same as film direction-as it would be literally impossible for one person to handle all aspects of a movie production. I've always thought the same as what's already been said about dre on here-he hasnt actually played a lot of the synth lines he's famous for-he basically just hums out melodies for people to play- same thing eminem does on shit he gets credit for producing. Dre has made mad sample based shit himself though-but still, considering his overall process includes so many other peoples work-he shoulda been one of the first on that "overrated" list.
Anyway- basically-at least in hip hop-the producer isn't just someone calling the shots in a studio.At least not real hip hop music. The best producers in hip hop are the cats that make beats with specific artists or concepts in mind- then work with the artist in the studio to help mold the song. Not just a cat sending random people random beats. This is why some of the best albums of all time have been 2 man producer/mc groups-and you're seeing so many producer/mc colabos nowadays-because many artists feel this is the best way to create a cohesive, memorable hip hop album. Another note-99% of your favorite "underground/indie" projects arent being created in a big studio with a team of people-it's the person/people making the music in a basement or bedroom just like us.

Btw- I saw the Grap vid too- But has anyone actually seen the official credits/liner notes for soul survivor 2? When I watched the video I wasn't getting the impression that Pete took total credit for the beat-and actually I was thinking that was the reason it was one of the few tracks he spit on on the album-Because it wasn't his beat. I mean, yea, it's listed as a Pete Rock song feat. Meth-but it was a Pete Rock album-it's not like it could be listed as "Grap Luva feat. Pete Rock & Method Man". He did make a substantial change to it with adding the vocal samples besides just the drums- but I would have a hard time believing he would steal credit from his own brother. Besides all that, I always wondered how the hell those key samples got flipped to make that sound. That beat is so dope. When people talk about "the next level of production" and the "future sound of hip hop",calling cats like flying lotus a genius- I hear shit like the beats on that video and know i could give a fuck about any "next level"-that's how hip hop should sound.

Well Q tip is a great producer, but he famously stole "we got the jazz" from Pete Rock. Also, part of being a producer is directing other musicians. Dre does a fine job of this. On Kanye's latest albums he's getting studio musicians to play the synths. Is he any less genius ...heck no. Quincy Jones is not less genius for getting Herbie Hancock to play for his productions. He's very smart! I think we should once and for all separate Beat-Makers from Producers. Beat Makers make Beat and Producers Produce. Some do both, some do one or the other.