So, this is a topic of on going discussion. More often than not, hip hop DJs seem to playing the same old stuff from the "golden age" of hip hop and don't seem to be addressing the great movement that is taking place. This applies to producers, too. Don't get me wrong, I grew up on and love the golden age music,I've got tons of that stuff. However, it seems that some hip hop heads can't move past the 90's. I love the beats generation movement that is going on and the creativity that comes with it. Yet,many hip hop heads have the attitude that "it's not hip hop, it's electronic music. To which I respond, "if it wasn't for electronic music "Planet Rock" would never have existed. In order for hip hop to survive the new as well as the old must be embraced. There, I got it out. I'm interested in hearing everyone else's insight on the matter. Big ups to all the heads who are redefining the game!!

well you gotta think about "hip hop" as a whole...

planet rock was like the ultimate bboy joint... which was part of the breaking part of hip hop... which also sampled a part of a kraftwerk song if im not mistaken...

using breaks is what inspired cats to rhyme butthat was based offa "toasting" which is what rasta's did i think during dancehall or something else...

i dont think dj's/ beatmakers are excluding themselves from the current movement of music... to an extent alot of it is dancemusic but ppl wanting to say its hip hop because it sells... IM ONLY REFERRING TO COMMERCIAL MUSIC @ THIS POINT!

if you look @ the techniques used in that type of music its a baltant rip off of electro in most cases...

for alot of cats that still rock "golden era" mentalities its more about gving a history lesson...

yet some cats will spit on that idea because as the attention span of ppl nowadays is 10 mins... shit used to be 15 mins (look @ movies... if nothing happens in 15 mins yo lose your audience, go ahead and time it)

and its not like old school hip hop never utilized synths and drum machines or any other real instrument... the ish just got better when sampling started because that became another creative aspect...

ppl like flylo know that what they do came from hip hop trip hop and whatever else... underground music itself is shifting to beats like his but it hasnt taken over yet...


i agree with the idea that some of it is electronic because it is... mainstream music that is... and even some of the cats that are making that mainstream music say it themselves...
i think its about respecting the history because if they dont play it no one else will...

^ Well said, I just find it funny that people even need to draw this comparison in the beat scene as if they separate themselves from the "golden era" they will be seen as true innovators. You wouldn't tell a contemporary jazz musician to get their style out of the 1930's. The only reason people recycle old electronic production styles into their music to create some "future beat" scene is to define a portion of the market to make themselves economically viable. Otherwise just make whatever expresses how you feel and let the people sort it in their head/

shit man i gotta big up your statement as well... i think ppl are too busy doing that... i mean its cool to compete for the "dopest sound" but not to the point where yo start to diss the ppl that made it b4 you...

and while im @ it let me say this....

Dirty South Down South whatever type of music has always been great... when ppl werent recycling drum patterns with the same sounds break downs whatever... right now they are the driving force behind the synth era in commercial music... but if u look at southern music x amount of years ago it was much more unique... take cats like 36 mafia, mannie fresh and organized noise/ dungeon family... all them cats (little jon included) had unique sounds but today everyone (not them ) rides the coattail of the sound of the last beat that made it... i think thats why some cats would rather rep the sound of the past because you had so much more to work with...

lyrics included, lol

I'm not trying to offend anyone but am i missing something? the golden age of hip hop ended over 10 years ago. Since then I have been hearing the same generic sound. Can someone give me an example of this "great movement"

one cat i can give MAJOR props to is Damu the fudgemunk... i also like marco polo, exile and black milk...

but even some of those cats incorporate synths into thier set ups soooo

i think they are popular because they dont pay attention to what other cats think shit should be...

also i dont really think that there is a 90's era movement anymore because of ppl that are really about bringing old and new elements to the table...

I think cats have to stop trying to make something new and innovative and stick with the formula that they had in the 90s.
Don't change a winning team...

There was a time, around 2000, when european hip-hop (mainly French rap) was going into a very refreshing direction - people were experimenting with all kinds of sounds formerly only known from techno and the likes. I don't remember too many names, but Booba was one of them, and Skyrock was a radio station (and label?). They were making very heavy and deep beats using modern production methods (which is more than sampler+tape recorder), synthesizers to actually make up melodies and harmonies instead of just using a sample, and the music generally sounded very modern. I don't understand French so I can't comment on the lyrics

Later then I guess what happened is what one of you guys described as people going like "Oh that's not rap, that's techno". The mass didn't quite like the direction it was taking. But then, the average listener doesn't have the slightest clue what is behind the music, how it is made, and first of all what "Techno" is. Or hiphop, for that matter. They hear an electronic sounding instrument, they think "techno". They hear someone rapping, they think "hiphop". How stupid lol

And besides, don't make me start about the German "hiphop-scene". It doesn't deserve its name, it's a joke. Infact quite some producers have found that there is no market for German hiphop anymore, so these days they do other stuff. Example: Deichkind - they do bad commercial wannabe-techno now. As I said, it's laughable.

TTC (another project they got was L'atelier) was a good french band of those years, "similar" to what Anticon (and Antipop Consortium) made at the same time, but with a french humour and touch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SrU3Ys3JMU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ee6z5rp8zY

a good , out, weird, noisy italian act of that decade (and this new decade too) is probably Uochi Toki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2pZ8C7ODSs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTPKwtC4fgU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Hnb5RfSRw&feature=related

their noise/industrial hiphop (? this is not really rap, but declaimin verses not necessarely in rhyme, i think) is very intriguing.

Hip Hop has always incorporared different music genres into itself. Who remembers when House beats were rhymed over by rappers back in the 90's? Not to say that was the golden era, but at the time, House music sold records and got more bump in the club than Hip Hop. So for some it was about commodity, just like Electronic music makes money for these rappers. (though I respect the creative aspect from certain producers).

The Golden Era is Hip Hop standing by itself. No latest trend watering it down, it was raw material. Just dope rhymes and infectatious beats. Most songs didn't even had a hook then, the dj would fill up the chorus with scratchin' and other hypnotic shit.

But then Hip Hop was falling asleep again and getting high with the latest fashions of music and the real Hip Hop heads turned to Nirvana and Red Hot Chili Peppers for sanction. Believe it. Thats when Wu-Tang Clan came and woke it up again and things got crazy and a new revolution of Boom Bappers appeared. But then RZA wasn't feeling it anymore so the South came to take it there and they represented well. What fucked it up for the south was these amateur synth playing producers that never even took lessons and it was a tsunami of them.

Now, its a new generation, kids that grew up in the mist of garbage music and think thats what daddy listened to and so they make their own music to rebel against dad's flavor, but later find out that before this garbage era there was a prosperous time in Hip Hop called the Golden Era with the same kind of mind as them and they're like "Damn, what happened?"

I'll tell you what happened, Hip Hop is like the universe that goes in a circular cycle and just like electronic music moved into DITC vibes, so it will again.





Don't mind me, I'm in a trance right now. Respect to all music makers and long live Hip Hop.

Peace

Maybe you haven't been listening to everything, or are just generalising or stereotyping It's not your fault, that's what happens to your brain when you aren't interested in something or dont see the full picture.. You only notice differences/details of something if you focus closely on it.

Sound is just as varied as it used to be - and old sound has just as much commonality with other old sounds as new sound does with other new sounds!
Maybe you just are being more exposed to only one type of sound (because it's popular) than another


As for the electronic/not thing... It's just like the difference between real instrument playing vs sampling.. people who say it's not hiphop are as closeminded as the people that say sampling isn't making music... you'd think they would remember their past better, but hey.. 20-30 years is plenty of time for people to close their minds.

I think with the internet we have every niche genre available to us at every moment. There is so much to choose from that fans will be more spread between artists giving us less mega stars. People are really drawing from all genres and eras of music these days, so we can listen to new music of old genres. Zomby's where were you in 92 rings a bell. Or if I want some dope boom bap I just come on heer or listen to madlib. Anyways I think there is lots of change, but it up to the individual to accept any change. Now that they don't play music videos on MTV or Much Music, people aren't being told by the media what is cool, youtube hit amounts determine that, and anyone can upload some shit to youtube.

Music is always changing- whether we want it to, or whether that's a good thing is a different topic. I think every generation, just like every genre of music has its good and its bad- does it have to be an all or nothing thing? Good music is good music, and bad music is bad music. Take the good and disregard the bad- regardless of the era it came from or the equipment used or w.e else.

Although that is easier said than done sometimes..

i feel the og poster. to me 'hip hop' is like a 'punk rock' .. often associated with a particular type of sound but in actuality more refers to a style/aesthetic of music.
also i fall into a small category of people who enjoy the more disco/electro/drum machine rap over the golden 90's. so i think its awesome that more electronic stuff is coming back in, although ALOT of it is cheesy and contrived at the moment. but i def think alot of people who consider themselves heads dont really realize that hip hop started out with more of a funky electronic sound. but for real one sound doesnt have to dominate a genre. plus its 2010 there hasnt really been alot of new music styles in the past..umm 20 years. id like to know what anyone out there whos been listening to hip hop for awhile thinks of the uk grime scene? i think its time to take some inspiration back to the states and kick it with real flows.

Great thread, great discussion.

Gotta say though that while the golden age stuff is killer, ya can't limit horizons or disregard what comes next. Of course there'll be a backlash against everything successful & definitive.


Damn straight. Just read this & listen to the tracks at the end:
http://pitchfork.com/features/articles/7806-ghosts-in-the-machine/
Get too hung up on drum machines vs rare breaks & you miss out on new stuff like that 'drag' music Pitchfork raved over last week. Even though its not hip hop, its sound is referential to trip hop, some drum machine hip hop & appears to use a bunch of hip hop production techniques (loads of sampling, rhythm as melody, sidechained compression etc) along with a shoegazer vibe.

Point is that without labeling genres & subgenres we can't step beyond what's already been done & aim for originality.

But if I had to pick a side: golden age.