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Does listening to alot of other peoples music help or hurt your own?
Helps  47%  47%  [ 9 ]
Hurts  5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Both, depending on the session  47%  47%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 19
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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:24 pm 
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hurlingdervish wrote:
alright maybe there are some ok rolling stones songs...

but this song is in the top ten worst written songs ever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th47siid6_k


same riff....over and over...and over...and over


ha ha! before i even clicked the link i thought, "i bet this is shattered...."

terrible song, no doubt.

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:35 pm 
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on the emulate versus imitate debate:

many years ago i saw a thing on tv with british actor michael caine. he was giving a master class to theatre students on how to deliver a performance for tv (which involves far more close-ups and such than stage actors are used to...they usually have to overblow all their expressions so the back row can see 'em).

anyway, michael caine said (and i'm paraphrasing here), "if you are a fan of whatever actor, and you like how he looks over his shoulder at the camera, or how he changes his expression in a certain situation, or whatever else - STEAL IT. i can guarantee you that YOU doing this actor's expression will not be the same as HIM doing it. over time, you will work this into your own expression, it becomes yours, and if you are lucky, someone will steal it from you in time."

that made a HUGE impact on me. liberating, you know?

but i also learned that christian slater can steal so much from jack nicholson that there's no christian slater left to like.

so i think you have to emulate / swipe stuff while also being able to get some distance from yourself and hear what you are doing accurately.

for instance don't swipe the analogue keys, minimal beats, found-sounds, AND all the arrangements of a boards of canada song for your own song. maybe try just mimicking the keys. take the beat idea from cannibal ox, take the arrangement from aesop rock.

you know? mix and match influences. they're all in you anyway. if christian slater took the voice of nicholson and the weird arm movements of nicholas cage (for instance) he'd be a LOT more likable and (ironically, maybe) more unique.

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:55 pm 
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^^^ good one! hahah shattered is a disgraceee

the thing is the imitation factor is only really a problem when you are playing music by yourself


back when i played guitar in bands, everyone had an idea of where to take the band and even though i would have liked to sound a bit like mars volta, my drummer like zeppelin, and my bassist like primus the sum total was something new

with solo music i think sometimes the musician can be pressured to put out beats that sound the same simply because its their "style". if they tried something completely new they might be losing fans or lose the record deal
this is seen obviously with club style music, but less obviously with hip hop

i really hope electronic music moves beyond the solo dome

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:26 pm 
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while electronic music is my favourite genre i don't really like club music because of the restraints it forces upon those who create it. wheter it be staying within a certain BPM, or using a standard structure, you can still experiment but not as freely as you like.

i think that imitation still comes out when people collab as influences are shared and sometimes people have stronger personalities than others.

i really like collaboration in the electronic music arena as i think so much can be done. conversely part of the reason why i like electronic music is because it is a solo effort. i don't need other people in order to fulfill my vision of what i want my sound to be like.

obviously taking that view you can see that i place more value on the creation of music than the enjoyment of the listener.


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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Hot Sauce wrote:
while electronic music is my favourite genre i don't really like club music because of the restraints it forces upon those who create it. wheter it be staying within a certain BPM, or using a standard structure, you can still experiment but not as freely as you like.

i think that imitation still comes out when people collab as influences are shared and sometimes people have stronger personalities than others.

i really like collaboration in the electronic music arena as i think so much can be done. conversely part of the reason why i like electronic music is because it is a solo effort. i don't need other people in order to fulfill my vision of what i want my sound to be like.

obviously taking that view you can see that i place more value on the creation of music than the enjoyment of the listener.

yes even with groups they can still sound derivative, but not if each person wants to take it a different direction

i got into electronic music for the solo effort too, and getting your head out in sound form is great, but there really isn't enough collaboration in the genre. if there is its often just a duo hanging out in the studio, or just one guy doing the work and the other guy as a "social engineer" who bounces ideas and schmoozes up the parties.

very rarely do you get bands like animal collective where its just everyone putting in equal amounts and it definitely shows in their music because they rose above the rest.



i have music that i have made that definitely sounds like my style but then i have derivative crap too that i mostly did for fun to see if i could do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:19 pm 
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I voted Both. It helps to get inspiration and energy to continue / start on a new beat, but it hurts when I find out around halfway through that I'm accidentally copying / emulating a song I have heard before. That happens more often than I initially realize.

I think I should read up on the 'melody' copyright stuff.. isn't it 6 notes in a row or something that you're allowed to have in common with a copyrighted melody?

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:15 pm 
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My take is that aspiring artist (and sometimes established artists) all like to pay homage to other artists who have inspired them.

In the genres of jazz, blues, folk, funk, rock... and reggae this is accomplished by doing cover songs. And every cover song will have some new flavor or twist from the original artist's version.

In the genre of electronic and hip-hop music it doesn't always makes sense to do a cover. So they lift samples from the songs that inspired them.

I don't really get caught up on matters of weather something is copied or ripped from one musician to the next.


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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:36 am 
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that's ^^ a big tradition in jazz as well - to begin your solo by paying homage to previous solos. then you play yr own bit. then maybe you reference someone else's solo again (or a nursery rhyme or whatever). in jazz (as i understand it) this is a way of showing that music is one long river and we're all just stepping into it mid-stream. we step back out and it continues.

so it is not necessarily about just doing covers....for example: beasties pull that PE line from 'bring the noise' ('now they got me in a cell') on 'egg man', dilla takes the beasties intro to 'the new style' for 'workinonit' (or whatever), everyone and their fuggin DOG steals everything from dilla....

you know? homage.

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:49 am 
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i just found this in stumble upon

http://www.thatsongsoundslike.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:02 am 
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^^ :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:33 am 
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proof that stumbleupon is actually skynet and knows what im thinking :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:41 am 
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I listen to alot of house´n`techno tunes.(driving home from work or when I go to bed I listen to alot of beats´n`things on my MP3 player) When i hear a track that really has what it takes, I try to "remix" it on my MC´s ...ofcourse it never turns out exactly the way it sounds on the last MP3 i heard ...actually it sounds waaaaay different but still very cool (my opinion) :mrgreen: . That´s how I mostly do things musically, getting good ideas from other artist and turning it into my style. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:54 pm 
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fauna wrote:
everyone and their fuggin DOG steals everything from dilla....


Yeah dillas influence is vast, but its starting to get on my nerves that people get dismissed as dilla wannabees because their drums are swinging and they drop some 'turn it up's into their beats. Case in point: the other day elequents new tape in colour volume 3 was up on crate kings, and people were calling him dilla jacker, just because dudes drums are out of time...
Also I was reading a blog, where someone called samiyam a dilla jacker.......why because he wears a dilla t shirt lol

I think everyones influenced by dilla, but then again theres nothing wrong with that... I dont think I wanna listen to someone who doesnt cite dilla as an influence lol, thats like being a boxer and not looking upto Muhammed Ali

whew essay :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:22 am 
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Jmoki wrote:
fauna wrote:
everyone and their fuggin DOG steals everything from dilla....


Yeah dillas influence is vast, but its starting to get on my nerves that people get dismissed as dilla wannabees because their drums are swinging and they drop some 'turn it up's into their beats. Case in point: the other day elequents new tape in colour volume 3 was up on crate kings, and people were calling him dilla jacker, just because dudes drums are out of time...
Also I was reading a blog, where someone called samiyam a dilla jacker.......why because he wears a dilla t shirt lol

I think everyones influenced by dilla, but then again theres nothing wrong with that... I dont think I wanna listen to someone who doesnt cite dilla as an influence lol, thats like being a boxer and not looking upto Muhammed Ali

whew essay :oops:


Same thing gets on my nerves too. Dilla's great, but just because someone's beats have swing doesn't mean they're biting Dilla!


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 Post subject: Re: Inspiration or copying?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:37 am 
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hurlingdervish wrote:
i just found this in stumble upon

http://www.thatsongsoundslike.com/


And I just stumbled upon this...

http://www.youtube.com/user/funktuall

The guy is a fuck'n nut case, but he delivers a wealth of information on the used samples in hip-hop.


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