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 Post subject: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:55 am 
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Hello. I intend to buy a SP404MKII and I wanted to ask here the most divisive question: what are the known flaws of the unit ? Why ? You're clinging to former iterations of the unit by expertise. Every answer is welcome. My bank account is also ready to substantiate any rumors as long as it eventually evades the buy. Comparisons, apprehensions, participations in attempted treason will be treasured by someone who never owned one, is still into DAWs, holds is Pocket Operator 33 as a miniaturized SP1200 while drooling on SP2400, OctaTrack and MPC Live 2 but definitely thinks that the ratio of features to the price is good. Also a shootout to Ill Green for helping me understand the benefits of the cloud.

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:30 am 
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Hahaha....

Just prepare yourself for the incoming onslaught from a certain member on here ... :lol:


5,4,3,2,1......


Edit - it's not @TGN's comment below..

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Last edited by Danswift on Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:53 am 
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On OG404 you can hold MARK and the press a sample pad, so the sample starts playing, then you can just hit MARK again for quickly setting up only the sample endpoint. Which is all you need, when you sample with threshold.That is not possible on the mk2. You can press START/END and then MARK one time for the sample start and a second time for the sample end. Setting up start & end points are more precisely on mk2 due to the visible waveforms, but way slower, too. Not a dealbreaker for me, but i had to get used to it.

-No possibility to change sampling frequency


I think the mk2 is in general really well thought and really well made. It is in my opinion the mightiest sp ever. Regarding the other sp's - where you could miss a specific function - the mk2 has it all - but slightly other efx of course. Well, vinylsim sounds better on 404og and 303, and there is no multitracker like on 808, but man this is negligible. If you want the real sound, you have to get the real machines. But regarding all the functions and improvements and the new mpc-like features i can really recommened the mk2. Let me quote a legendary sp-user from the mk2vsOG-thread:

LORD BEATJITZU wrote:
The MKII is def a beast but it is a different kind then the OG! like some of you said since it does lack limitations you can get caught up in the mpc cookie cutter style, but you can always use a different mind set to overcome that. As far as effects some are good some im not fully feeling yet,it seems like there's to many parameters on the efx and it takes a good tweaking to get a good sound.
I have no idea why they got rid of the low bit sample rates like on the 202,303,404 they really messed up on that for sure,regardless of memory still give us that option.
Overall I enjoy the mkii, but I've come to realize comparing the 2 is like apples to oranges.
Og will forever have a place in my heart!!


LORD BEATJITZU wrote:
BTW there's not alot of menu diving its all easy to navigate!I have confirmed that the MKII does have the same magic as all other SP,just more futuristic!


A lot to read, but i think most things are already discussed here: https://sp-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=6 ... it=Mk2+404
and there:
https://sp-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=6 ... 17#p177117

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:30 pm 
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Danswift wrote:
Hahaha....

Just prepare yourself for the incoming onslaught from a certain member on here ... :lol:

Hah, I'm saying nothing bruh, absolutely fuck all!!!
I did own an SP-404MKII though and don't now (enough said) :lol:

Just in case peeps haven't noticed, there's actually two very distinct lines of machines that comprise the SP line. There's the menu-based line and there's the more hands-on, organic-feeling LED-based line.

Menu-Based Line:
- SP-404MKII
- SP-505
- SP-606
- SP-808 (Top-of-the-Line Menu-Based Model)

LED-Based Line:
- SP-202
- SP-303
- SP-404 OG/SX/A
- SP-555 (Top-of-the-Line LED-Based Model)

As you can see, the MKII actually fits in as a bottom of the line Menu-Based device (meaning it's the worst of both worlds, and that's exactly what it comes across as). How many of you have considered how that appalingly designed unit actually compares to the other menu-based devices listed in that line?

Download the manuals :wink:

So it's a choice between the 'Menu-Based' line or the 'LED-Based' line, and what they've basically done here is taken the 404 and tried to shove it into the Menu-Based line, and that is a move that simply does not work. People who love their 404 are basically in love with the LED-Based SP line, and the MKII is not part of that line.

I'm well aware that people are having a laugh with me on here due to the amount of gear I've gone through, and I honestly take it a humourous way, but I believe that each and every one of them KNOW deep down that I will indeed be keeping the SP-555, and the reason for that is really quite simple.

It is because as old-school 404 users, they ALL know very well that the SP-555 is basically the ultimate old-school 404, it is the very 404 they wish their current 404 could have been but never will be, and they'll be secretly keeping a very close eye on the SP-555, hoping to find one that hasn't been jizzed all over due to the excitement of owning one!

The SP-555 is the best SP ever designed, period. Trying to convince me otherwise just makes peeps look as if they're taking something that is perhaps is a little too strong for their brain to handle.

The SP-555 is Roland's Top-of-the-Line LED-Based SP (also distinguished quite interestingly I feel as being the only SP in the entire line that doesn't have a '0' in the model number). You are never going to see its like from Roland again (the SP-404MKII demonstrates how the current SP team think), so personally, I reckon y'all should stop kidding yourselves and instead start hunting-down an SP-555 before they become outrageously unaffordable!

Shown below is the ultimate SP sporting a sexy custom paint job :mrgreen:
Buy yeah, like I said ... I'm sayin' nothing!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:52 pm 
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another derailed thread, he asked for Mk2 flaws etc not why you think the 555 is what you want to buy and why you think its great...


Anyways Gabanoise check this thread out https://sp-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27105 ,, this was for the MK2 so there'll be good discussion, havent personally owned one or used so wont be able to say much so maybe this thread will be helpful once you reach the posts after its release. Gotta say Ive heard people killing with it, here's Lord Beatjitzu's MKII tape https://www.mixunit.com/p/1333151-shaki ... -beatjitzu

Shoutout Beatjitzu a real og w real accolades on his belt so I'd look into what hes had to say on the machine and maybe he will drop a post here

TGN said this before too: "I like the sp-404mk2 for techno/house/4x4/ stuff, but you still have to find your workarounds on a luxury level now - what a luck, it would not be a SP if it wouldn't be this way. :)"
- Based off this I feel like you already know whats coming with finding workarounds as you go along haha

https://www.youtube.com/c/spitlogic this channel might help too

good luck, if i come across anything ill drop it by

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:46 pm 
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I would definetly not consider the mk2 as a menu-based sampler, only because it has a proper screen. It is nearly as immediate as a og404 in my opinion and far away of an 808 or some other really menu-based roland samplers (for example w30).

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:24 pm 
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Jaytreaze wrote:
another derailed thread, he asked for Mk2 flaws etc not why you think the 555 is what you want to buy and why you think its great...

The only post in this thread so far that is a "derailment" is yours by referring to mine as a derailment. I was replying to Danswift but went into such detail because the original poster sounded as if he wants opinions - so I've gven a few!

In short, it was my polite way of hinting not to waste money on an SP-404MKII. The hardware decisions they made are so fucked-up that the team behind it have cost Roland more to do it wrong than it would have cost them to do it right, and the software interface is so needlessly fucking bad you'd better check you can afford a hair transplant job before buying one!

There is NO QUESTION which is the better device, it's the SP-555 plain and simple, hence why the SP-555 is my recommendation after owning and revelling in the relief that can only come from seeing the back of the MKII. It is one thing to make a mistake by buying something like that, but it is another when you fail to recognise it and learn by that mistake.

The SP-404MKII is an absolute abomination in design, so to compare that thing to the SP-555 is well and truly beyond the threshold of hysterical. And finally, I have my own SP-555 on the way and it's no skin off' my nose whatever the original poster ultimately decides to go for!



TGN wrote:
I would definetly not consider the mk2 as a menu-based sampler, only because it has a proper screen. It is nearly as immediate as a og404 in my opinion and far away of an 808 or some other really menu-based roland samplers (for example w30).

It's still menu-based though, and the MKII doesn't have the same vibe, behaviour and sound as the LED-based line. Also, I think the SP-808 is an awesome peice of kit (you know that), but again it's part of the Menu-Based line of SPs and that's really the problem with its design, it's why it feels cumbersome compared to the LED-based line of SPs.

It's no surprise that it's mainly the LED-based SPs that have a following.


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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:12 pm 
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Ive got quite a few samplers and the 404mk2 is probably my favorite. Only gripe, samples do not audition when exchanging pads.


But I’ve never used a 555… Maybe the d-beam plus WAH is amazing, guess it’s not for me to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:01 pm 
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kel wrote:
But I’ve never used a 555… Maybe the d-beam plus WAH is amazing, guess it’s not for me to say.

No interest in the D-Beam personally. For me it's first an foremost the interface, the sound quality, the ability to monitor, record, loop, and mix external sounds with internal sounds. The ability to sample and resample through all the effects (including the Guitar and Amp effects), and the ability to generate loops that have auto-length cut-off for the amount of measures you specify as either 1, 2 or 4 measures.

In other words it's a beast (it's even Zindan approved) :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:08 pm 
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kel wrote:
Ive got quite a few samplers and the 404mk2 is probably my favorite. Only gripe, samples do not audition when exchanging pads.

cool

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:56 pm 
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SP-USER wrote:
kel wrote:
Maybe the d-beam plus WAH is amazing

No interest in the D-Beam personally.


Weren't you asking about a touch wah a while back? Would that function the same with the d-beam, or were you thinking more like a ribbon controller input? Or like a pedal wah?

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:47 pm 
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Sure but I meant in an auto-responsive way and you would not get that sort of thing from the D-Beam. Not saying I wouldn't use it for anything but it's not of massive importance to me.

Watching a video the other day though, I gotta say that the 'FX Memory' function for turning the pads into effects presets that you can just hit is very cool indeed. I hadn't much interest in it when I first read about it, but after seeing it in action it's a very cool, powerful thing to have, really nice!

You could even assign a different Pan setting from one of the effects that contain Pan to a bunch of the pads and adjust the Pan for each, and then hit them rhythmically while resampling so that the Pan jumps to the position you pre-set on the FX memory for the pads, pretty cool, the possibilities are endless really!


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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:51 pm 
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"Chicks dig the D- Beam" ...

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:33 am 
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Gabanoise_Records wrote:
what are the known flaws of the unit ? Why ?


I don't have a mk2 so someone will have to back this up/confirm if it was fixed, but I read somewhere in here that there's a noticeable lag when you finish recording a sample (not sure about resampling). Like 3 seconds long, which is a lot longer than a 404SX. I can't remember if it cuts the sound or not but it seems pretty disruptive if it's really that bad...

SP-USER wrote:
Watching a video the other day though, I gotta say that the 'FX Memory' function for turning the pads into effects presets that you can just hit is very cool indeed. I hadn't much interest in it when I first read about it, but after seeing it in action it's a very cool, powerful thing to have, really nice!


It's a flaw if the mk2 doesn't have this functionality :P

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 Post subject: Re: Known Flaws of the Sp404MK2
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:11 am 
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SP-USER wrote:
Watching a video the other day though, I gotta say that the 'FX Memory' function for turning the pads into effects presets that you can just hit is very cool indeed. I hadn't much interest in it when I first read about it, but after seeing it in action it's a very cool, powerful thing to have, really nice!


It's a flaw if the mk2 doesn't have this functionality :P[/quote]

Dunno why they didn’t just label the mfx buttons “1-6” instead of giving them names seeing how you can assign your own settings to them.

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