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 Post subject: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:30 pm 
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Those who have spent time with both the OG 404 and the MKII what are your thoughts on the new 404?I'm primarily interested if you think one sounds better than the other?with all the new features do you still feel the MKII has the magic touch the OG has?


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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:11 pm 
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Dear Mr. HOT SAUCE,

They should've given u this machine

tbh I think this forum is now full of SX's and A's

I can't provide much feedback .. but as an OG user I think this should've been named the SP-707 - not many similarities from what I have heard in these "influencer" videos regarding the compression difference or vinyl simulation VS OG. Lots of 'lofi and chillin cows' with this unit. maybe the algo thinks im keen on that shit.
Also - I don't think you can record in 'lofi' on it. pretty sure they just allocated that to the MFX section. probably becasue storage issues are no longer a thing
Dibia$e has put up some content but no OG comparison, that I have found.
His KO sounds pretty nice runnning thro it.

Pro: The most captivating MfX that has caught my ear is that cassette modulation or simulation. Obviously the effect has its own characteristics with it being digital sim and all but I would be surprised if you could skip the whole bounce to cassette process for that hiss/warmth by subbing in this effect.
AH think there's legit pitch too

Con: The menu diving looks painful ..assigning buses deep in the machine.. shortcuts to get to hidden mute group menus.. wouldn't be surprised if there was a button combo for the secret manual.. firmware updates @[email protected]
with all that said - I bet YOU could get the machine into microwave mode once the workflow clicked in.. its not as limited as a OG404 which is win/lose in my mind.


Did you order one?!!
Im on the fence.. in no rush for mkII probably wait for all these lofi 'teens' to start making house music.. then I'll get one for cheeeeeeper ;;;;;'''')))))))

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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:10 am 
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The 404 og was my first sampler ever, i make music with it for over 10 years now. But the postman ringed a few weeks ago and brought me the mk2, too.

First of all i think, they sound very different. og is raw, gritty, the efx are slapping in your face, has true lofi sampling in 22 kHz and clips very fast - we all know that. The mk2 is not comparable to that soundwise in my opinion. It is a hifi-machine, you cannot change the 48kHz sampling rate and the effects are good but seem rather subtle, not that bam in your face. I played with its lofi-efx and while i really enjoy the cassette-sim (you are right, CULP), i do not like the lofi-efx, compared to real lofi sampling. The mk2 seems more tame in general. But i think, i have to dive in deeper, i have only worked on one beat with the mk2 - compared to 10 years with the og - of course i am biased.

I do have to admit i like the overall dark sonic character of the mk2. Reminds me a little bit of the Digitakt's Sound.

Magic? This is my big problem here.
You know this situation on og 404, when you got this one sample, which pleases your ears and then you start your journey. You throw efx on it, experiment, try out, resample and you do not know where it ends. And you have to face the limitations, get a work around. But this is where my creativity starts. This is where the chains get broken and i make music, away from prejudices and rational opinions of how music should be. Where i exit a covinient, overthinking way of making music, and go my own path. Sounds a little bit pathetic but you get the idea.

On mk2? I haven't found the magic yet.
Perhaps this is due to the many functions reminiscent of an mpc, which tempt me to work more rationally with the mk2. More in a "standard" way. 16 levels, chromatic mode, lazy chop, easy copy of samples and pattern...and last but not least the visual cutting of samples. While i'm used to using the [mark] button to set the start and end points of samples at the speed of light and trusting my ears, the visual cutting makes me want to zoom in and out and cut samples very precisely. But this perfection is not necessary and time consuming and again, a (over-) rational way of producing music.

And why the hell is it not possible to set only the endpoint with the [mark]-button? I often sample with the threshold so my startpoint is already set correctly.
I like the 2 efx busses, but why are they deactivated when i record a pattern?
Why does the 8x undo not affect deletings in pattern record mode?
Yeah, there are firmware bugs like these, why i am a little disappointed, too.
And i do not really know, how to set up the strength of quantization for my use. When setting it up to 50% a recorded drumpattern feels spongy, in between of hard quantized or loose, no fish, no meat but not really groovy. But maybe i have to experiment more with this feature. Again, i only worked on my beat for the spbb#333 with the mk2 and haven't spend that much time with it.

On the other hand the mk2 is very fast when it comes to pitch/timestretch. You can do that in one of the 2 sample main screens just by twiddeling 2 knobs. It is not a function like on the 808, you can do that live.
So it is easy to match bpm, or get 2 samples into the same tone pitch in a good quality.This opens another world for me, because of the bad pitch/timestretch of the og i rarely used it, and if I did, then only in a subtle way. So the whole "finding samples and get them to the same pitch and time"-way of making music is on another level here and this is positive.
(Maybe something for you, Girru?)

So i haven't decided what to do with the mk2 yet.
I recently bought a sp-808 and besides the skipback feature and the possibility to sample over usb, there is nothing in this unit, i can't do with a sp-808 + 404 og in my opinion.
But Beatjitzu i know you already produced 2 (3)? bombastic tapes with the mk2 and you reported that you went from initial annoyance and skepticism to enthusiasm about the mk2, the more you worked with it. You wrote, that it is a new workflow for you, but it seems that the magic kicked in for you! Am i right?
Maybe I've already become a grumpy old man who is bothered by the slightest changes. :D Maybe i should give the mk2 and me more time and effort for magically connecting.

But there is another "problem" for me. I own the sp-404mk2, "nearly by accident". Preordered it end of november and then found the sp-808 with cf-card reader in december. Wanted to cancel my preorder then, got a mail from the online shop that the mk2 would not be delivered until may, so i was lazy and time flies and suddenly end of februar the postman ringed.
So originally i had the plan to dive deep into the 808 and do a tape with the my new sp-808 + og 404 combo. Now there is a mk2 besides of them waiting to get used or get sold again and i am overwhelmed/overloaded. I am ashamed, i got first world problems.

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Last edited by TGN on Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:33 am 
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CULP wrote:
Pro: The most captivating MfX that has caught my ear is that cassette modulation or simulation. Obviously the effect has its own characteristics with it being digital sim and all but I would be surprised if you could skip the whole bounce to cassette process for that hiss/warmth by subbing in this effect.
AH think there's legit pitch too


i'd never trade cassette for some digital FX, you'd have to kill me first :lol: :lol: :lol:

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"If you want that '90s sound, record at 12 bit as HOT as you can."


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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:04 pm 
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nice to see the oldheads back in here still inspired 8)

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks

"If you want that '90s sound, record at 12 bit as HOT as you can."


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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:46 pm 
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If I wasn’t gonna be waiting to fall just to order one, I’d get one on order. But here I am waiting on my cash anyway. (Damn IRS). I’m getting a MC909 or 707 and by fall we’re gonna be busy with all the overtime at my work. So unfortunately I’m waiting until more hit the market. I’ve still got my 404og, and it’ll be dope to sequence it from the 909.

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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:31 pm 
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@TGN thanks for that detailed write up. Super informative and you referenced some other gem SP's that would add their own character to the sound. Im sure we'll hear countless lofi teddy bear beats using this machine in time ;) again, Dibia$e has had some great little videos released, but im hard pressed to know what machine they are built on if I didn't see the actual SP in the video.

I think this MKII would be good if you were just starting out but far from a necessity. Obviously, despite my old balls reply, I would take one in a heartbeat if I got it for cheap, but Im in no way compelled to cop 1 new.

@Zindan - yeah agree - cassette is a lost art. These new kids dont even know how to sample from RCA cables. Pretty sure that info is in the manual. They all seem to want these pre-chopped sample packs that load on to a sd card. To each their own and I can understand why you would want those catered sounds if you had to chop using that caveman mark button on an SP.

*BUT the new cassette FX is about the only thing im super curious about with the machine. I want to hear it more.

@TGN - the fact that you can't record with a bus effect is mind boggling. I wonder if thats a hard limiting factor of the machines hardware or will be fixed in time.

@headphones - Have you ever sequenced into the 404? I have not and haven't done so because I heard the midi mapping is ...atrocious.
I think you can get velocity out of the 404 if you use midi.
Good luck with the IRS and dont work too hard.

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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:00 pm 
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Also, judging by the bandchamp photo on Old dirty jitzu page, he
answered is own post and has done private research regarding the mk vs OG sound comparison.
bye

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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:44 pm 
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The MKII is def a beast but it is a different kind then the OG! like some of you said since it does lack limitations you can get caught up in the mpc cookie cutter style, but you can always use a different mind set to overcome that. As far as effects some are good some im not fully feeling yet,it seems like there's to many parameters on the efx and it takes a good tweaking to get a good sound.
I have no idea why they got rid of the low bit sample rates like on the 202,303,404 they really messed up on that for sure,regardless of memory still give us that option.
Overall I enjoy the mkii, but I've come to realize comparing the 2 is like apples to oranges.
Og will forever have a place in my heart!!


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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:38 pm 
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CULP wrote:
@TGN thanks for that detailed write up. Super informative and you referenced some other gem SP's that would add their own character to the sound. Im sure we'll hear countless lofi teddy bear beats using this machine in time ;) again, Dibia$e has had some great little videos released, but im hard pressed to know what machine they are built on if I didn't see the actual SP in the video.

I think this MKII would be good if you were just starting out but far from a necessity. Obviously, despite my old balls reply, I would take one in a heartbeat if I got it for cheap, but Im in no way compelled to cop 1 new.

@Zindan - yeah agree - cassette is a lost art. These new kids dont even know how to sample from RCA cables. Pretty sure that info is in the manual. They all seem to want these pre-chopped sample packs that load on to a sd card. To each their own and I can understand why you would want those catered sounds if you had to chop using that caveman mark button on an SP.

*BUT the new cassette FX is about the only thing im super curious about with the machine. I want to hear it more.

@TGN - the fact that you can't record with a bus effect is mind boggling. I wonder if thats a hard limiting factor of the machines hardware or will be fixed in time.

@headphones - Have you ever sequenced into the 404? I have not and haven't done so because I heard the midi mapping is ...atrocious.
I think you can get velocity out of the 404 if you use midi.
Good luck with the IRS and dont work too hard.


I once tried to sequence a SP303 to a Korg Electribe. It went ballistic! I posted here aaaaaaages ago it acted like Keith Moon playing drums with his hands slipping on olive oil on the drum sticks. (Or something I said along those lines. Too lazy to dig for it here). Not sure how I’ll get the 909 or 707 to trigger the SP404 og, but I never really use it’s onboard sequencer tbh. So even if I just had it trigger a vocal or sound effect at certain points in a 4 bar pattern, that’d be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:37 pm 
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BTW there's not alot of menu diving its all easy to navigate!I have confirmed that the MKII does have the same magic as all other SP,just more futuristic!


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 Post subject: Re: OG vs MKII
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2022 2:50 pm 
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Just another step into the future with the MK. Hoard all that old hardware while you can.

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