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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:40 pm 
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I walke in a music instrument shop in Bruxelles (belgium) they told me they will have the 404 on monday

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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:37 pm 
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sleepynumb wrote:
Sorry I didn't get a chance to respond brochacho, but I experimented with the wah effect the other night.

Here are my findings:

Second page of parameters, knob three, allows you to sync the wah effect to the tempo. When Turned off the wah runs similarly to a free range LFO.

First page of parameters, knob two, sets the rate/speed of the Wah Effect. this reacts different depending if its tempo synced. It can super fast at higher settings

First page of parameters, third knob labeled manual adjusts what frequency is accentuated by the filter. When the rate is low and not wah ing this almost sounds like another filter to my ears.

One thing to consider to is the new Super Filter effect is different then the one on the 555 i used to have. This thing can mimic a touch wah pretty easy too. It has rate and depth and can be synced to the tempo too.

Here is a link to the effect description of the new super filter.

https://static.roland.com/manuals/sp-404mk2_reference/eng/17805555.html

I hope I understood your question correctly :twisted:

Cheers bro, but it's no Touch Wah from the sounds of it, nor is the Super Filter. It needs to be able to open and close the filter depending on the amount of volume running into the effect. Both of those effects you describe are purely LFO driven, not volume driven. It's cool they can be tempo-synced, but sadly neither of them are any good for the effect I meant.

Big thanks for checking though homie, it's much appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:00 pm 
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@sp user why not just buy a touch wah pedal and hook it up like a rig. Turn it on for what u want to have it on, record it and save it as a pad


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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:45 am 
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SP-USER wrote:
Cheers bro, but it's no Touch Wah from the sounds of it, nor is the Super Filter. It needs to be able to open and close the filter depending on the amount of volume running into the effect. Both of those effects you describe are purely LFO driven, not volume driven. It's cool they can be tempo-synced, but sadly neither of them are any good for the effect I meant.

Big thanks for checking though homie, it's much appreciated!


a traditional wah guitar pedal has nothing to do with the amount of volume running into it, the filter cutoff frequency is adjusted depending on how much you press the pedal down.

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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:25 am 
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Jaytreaze wrote:
@sp user why not just buy a touch wah pedal and hook it up like a rig. Turn it on for what u want to have it on, record it and save it as a pad

I shouldn't need to do that after paying all that cash out for a unit that should do it by default. I know it's nice to have dedicated gear for specific purposes, and doing that would certainly work, but I am desperately trying to keep the amount of separate devices to a bear minimum. The idea is to have an SP-404MKII and a synth to feed it, and that's it, nothing else.

If I can't do that I feel like I'm being pushed into a workflow I don't want.

zindan wrote:
a traditional wah guitar pedal has nothing to do with the amount of volume running into it, the filter cutoff frequency is adjusted depending on how much you press the pedal down.

True, but I'm not a guitar player and there's no wonder I'm confused as to the different types of wah, because believe it or not either AKAI or Roland have mis-labelled the effect. If you look at the MPC X reference manual you will see an effect called "Auto Wah". The parameters for it show that this is exactly the sort of Wah I need, but what they describe is what I thought was a Touch Wah. On the other hand the 404-MKII also calls the effect an "Auto Wah", however, notice the difference in the parameters? On the AKAI you have the envelope and sensitivity, on the Roland there is no envelope, ther is an LFO rate control instead. In addition, if you look at the descriptions of the parameters, on the AKAI it actually says that it is triggered by volume with an envelope to control the speed of the filter opening and closing when it is being triggered. Perfect, that's exactly the type I need, it's the type I hear in 70s and 80s movies and in funk etc.

See the problem here?

Roland are also calling it a "Auto Wah" yet it has no envelope and does not react to volume. So who the hell is right? Are AKAI right to call it an "Auto Wah" or are Roland? And it gets even more bizarre because on the MC-707 Roland have an effect that combines Overdrive/Distortion and "Touch Wah", and it does sound as if that works like I want it too as well since it has no LFO or rate control, thererfore suggesting it is dynamic.

So are AKAI right, are Roland right, what?

Obviously one of them fucked-up big time because on the 404-MKII they call it "Auto Wah" when it has an LFO and rate control. On the MPC X etc, they call it "Auto Wah" when it is volume driven with no LFO at all.

WTF? :?

To be absolutely clear, the version AKAI are describing is the correct type of Wah I need, that's the type I want, but I have no idea whether "Auto Wah" is the right name for it. I suppose AKAI could have named it wrong since they even categorised it wrong too. They listed it under "Other Effects" when it should have been listed under "Filter Effects". Them getting that wrong makes me feel it is AKAI who have named the Wah wrongly even though that's the type I need, but I really don't know.

All I can suggest is that you downlaod the manual for the MPC X and read the parameter descriptions for "Auto Wah" and see how drastically different they are to what Roland are calling "Auto Wah on the 404-MKII.

Remember, regardless of who has given it the correct name, it is the effect on the MPC X that is the version I am after, just read the parameter descriptions and you will see what I mean. Basically, you set the sensitivity, which tells it at what point the envelope is triggered by the volume level. You also have control over that envelope by adjusting Attack and Release.

There is absolutely no LFO involved, it is completely dynamic.


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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:25 am 
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PEDAL WAH
TOUCH WAH
AUTO WAH

Each does its thing a little differently so on the off chance anyone doesnt know how a Wah-Wah pedal works it's a foot controlled device that is a frequency Filter with a moveable Cutoff Frequency and a Resonance parameter. The Filter will allow certain audio frequencies to pass while it blocks others; the Resonance represents an amplitude increase (level) at the Cutoff Frequency - it emphasizes that frequency giving the Wah-Wah a distinctive sound. In an actual Wah-Wah pedal, the movement of the Filter Cutoff Frequency is determined by the position of the foot Pedal.

The Pedal performs a filter sweep.

What a Wah effect offers is three different methods of generating Wah-Wah.

Just looking at the names of the three Wah-Wah Effect types listed here, you can begin to understand that only one of them would respond to a change in acceleration thus changing the “speed of the effect”. The speed of an actual guitar player’s Wah-Wah would be determined by the muscles in the player’s leg and the action of their ankle as the speed is up to the person applying movement to the Pedal.

Pedal Wah would be the one that requires you to manually control the Speed of the Filter Cutoff Frequency change. Thus the name “pedal”.

Touch Wah works the Cutoff Frequency speed by your playing style...the more energy you put into playing causes a greater response in this movement and the effect is given the name “touch”.

With Auto Wah you can automate the movement of the Cutoff Frequency. This one's different from the other two, because the Cutoff Frequency moves with or without your influence.

With a Pedal Wah you must move the filter manually, with Touch it's sensitive to your interaction with the strings ,with the Auto Wah an LFO is applied to move the Cutoff Frequency automatically..hence the name “auto”.

This means the Cutoff Frequency is constantly in motion... even when you're not touching the strings, instead as you play the Filter is applied to the sound. Obviously you can't hear the modulation in Frequency until you run audio signal through the system... the movement then manifests itself on the resulting sound.


Only one of the three types will even have a SPEED Control or an LFO and of course that's the AUTO WAH.


Auto Wah - the first parameter is “Speed” and it has an LFO parameter to automate that speed of movement.

Touch Wah has “Sensitivity” in place of Speed because the movement is determined by you striking the strings.

Once you know what a Wah-Wah actually does it is a no-brainer (hopefully) you'll just need to be looking at the right effect type...for myself i mostly use a Jim Dunlop CryBaby coupled with the MXR Phase 90 both are pedals from the 1970s or the Wah FX patches on the SP -808 EX .

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Last edited by Danswift on Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:02 pm 
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Thanks for the detailed confirmation, Danswift.

So I was right then, I need the type AKAI are describing. AKAI have named and even categorised the effect wrong. AKAI have the type I need, the type that dynamically responds to what is being pumped through the effect, or in other words a "Touch Wah".

I've said from the start that I need a Touch Wah, not an Auto Wah, and it's a damn shame the 404MKII doesn't have one, which is a bit ridiculous considering they just added a guitar input. Korg are just as dumb when it comes to specifying effects, cause there is no Touch Wah on the OPSIX, a synth packed with EPs, Guitars and Clavs, all of which pretty much go hand-in-hand with Touch Wah.

The people working in the departments making these decisions must be half asleep sometimes. Man, I wish the MPC X wasn't so comparatively expensive compared to the MPC one, but it's almost three times the price for the same thing in a better spec'd body. If it were twice the price that would be bad enough, but I still would have gone for it I think, but not at almost three times the price, I've tried but cannot justify that.

The good news is the MC-707 has a Touch Wah, so if I were to pair that up with a 404MKII, that would give me a synth too. Trouble is, by the time I add the cost of a MC-707 to the cost of a SP-404MKII, it pretty much costs as much as I could get an MPC X for. That would mean deciding between the MPC X workflow that would give me the all-in-one workflow I wanted, or the 707+404MKII that would be a more hands-on workflow, but across two units.

Please Roland, if you're reading this, please add a Touch Wah to the 404MKII :!:

You too, Korg, if you're reading this stuff, you need a friendly arse kicking for not having a Touch Wah on the OPSIX - absolutely unbelievable!


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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:22 pm 
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Maybe take a look here .

Boss Compact Pedals Database.

The T, or Touch Wah is listed as the first FX unit in the list.

https://www.henrikhansson.com/product/tw-1-touch-wah/

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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:36 pm 
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Cheers homie, that's definitely the type, and I reckon the Touch Wah used on the MC-707 will be modeled on that one seeing as it's a Boss product. Notice how they say it's "envelope controlled" even though there are no controls for the envelope other than a basic switch?

Well it's exactly the same situation with the Touch Wah on the MC-707. So that's definitely the type, and I think the AKAI version is basically the same but with control over the Attack and Release time of the envelope instead of using a switch.

If anyone here with an MPC files bug reports, maybe let them know that they have misnamed and miscategorised the effect. What the AKAI has is "Touch Wah" not an "Auto Wah" and it should really be put under "Filter Effects", not "Other Effects".


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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:10 pm 
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Been meaning to check the Wah effect in the MKII but I am stuck in trying to upload images. Would help if Roland determined the right dpi. I might be doing something wrong but one guy on reddit managed and he tried a million things before he got it up and can't really tell us but that he resized the image 2 times.

Anyway, anyone getting their hands on one will be in for a rude awakening. For the workflow, though is "SPish", its different. But once you get to know it, it becomes lightning fast, even with the menu diving. Just give it a chance, learn it, refine it and tune it and you'll get the best out of this machine.


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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:45 pm 
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Ill Green wrote:
Been meaning to check the Wah effect in the MKII but I am stuck in trying to upload images. Would help if Roland determined the right dpi. I might be doing something wrong but one guy on reddit managed and he tried a million things before he got it up and can't really tell us but that he resized the image 2 times.

Anyway, anyone getting their hands on one will be in for a rude awakening. For the workflow, though is "SPish", its different. But once you get to know it, it becomes lightning fast, even with the menu diving. Just give it a chance, learn it, refine it and tune it and you'll get the best out of this machine.

Real talk get ready for menu diving and new workflow,I was ready to throw this thing out the window at one point. Now I'm having fun and enjoying it,there still some bugs. There's def a bug in the pattern sequence,I tried placing a ghost note kick on the "a" 16th note on the 2nd bar of my 2 bar pattern,I had quantize off and note matter how many times I tried it kept placing the ghost kick on the one of bar 1. Also noticed pads that dobt have samples lighting up green and yellow for no reason during pattern mode. I am using the latest update so hopefully its a bug roland can fix...


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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:41 am 
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I don't really use pattern mode, except for building a drum line, but trying it, yes, there are bugs and they bite. Near Tao is a member at mpc-forums and he pointed out the bugs in detail, copy and paste it to Roland to fix it. Swarm them. The more, the merrier...we be when its all good :P

https://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=75


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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:33 am 
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So because it’s peak season, I can essentially work 6 10-11 hour shifts, and I should be able to at least order mine by either the 10th or 26th of December. When it’ll arrive is anyone’s guess. But I’m not giving up on getting my order in at least.

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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:22 pm 
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I received a notification for my unit last saturday and i picked it yesterday night.

I have several questions already for those who got theirs :

- Whats your firmware? Mine says 1.01
Guess i have to update it already via SD Card

- The Skip back doesnt seems to work on mine, the mark pad is never blinking
Is it related to the firmware? Anyone exeprienced it?

Will give a proper review once all this is settled :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: SP-404 MK2?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:31 pm 
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Mr X_J wrote:
I received a notification for my unit last saturday and i picked it yesterday night.

I have several questions already for those who got theirs :

- Whats your firmware? Mine says 1.01
Guess i have to update it already via SD Card

- The Skip back doesnt seems to work on mine, the mark pad is never blinking
Is it related to the firmware? Anyone exeprienced it?

Will give a proper review once all this is settled :twisted:


You need to download the latest firmware (1.13), available on the Roland website. Have a clean SD card. It should contain the two unzipped files and nothing else. This activates skipback and fixes a few bugs.


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