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 Post subject: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:22 am 
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Hey guys, first post. love the forums.
So I produce with Ableton and I'm using an sp404a for fx, i am thinking about buy a new piece of gear and I'm looking for one of these 4 babies. I'm looking for a warm sound and nice compression and vynil sim and the sp303 seems the best option but is way expensive than the zoom st224 for example.
Any suggest?


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:02 pm 
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the adjective "warm" when used in reference to sound has a subjective meaning, but i'm pretty sure the general consensus of "warm sound" is sound that has generous low end frequencies with a smooth roll off, normal presence in the mid range, and a modest high end. "warm sound" is also used when referring to sound that includes various artifacts such as tape saturation, wow and flutter, harmonic distortion, etc. which naturally occur when recording on an analog medium; this is more of a connotation than an objective definition of "warm sound" though.

all of this considered, there isn't any digital sampler out there that will give you a warm sound alone without FX processing or outboard gear.
digital samplers with low sample rates though, they can possibly cause digital artifacts or limit frequency response. generally, digital artifacts are considered to be the antithesis of warmth and mostly undesirable. however, moderately low sample rates are quite common in the genre of hip hop, mostly due to the limitations of the equipment that was available in the past, so nowadays people intentionally utilize low sample rates (presumably to achieve an authentic or nostalgic quality).

according to wikipedia, "[Lossy data compression] artifacts in compressed audio typically show up as ringing, pre-echo, 'birdie artifacts', drop-outs, rattling, warbling, metallic ringing, an underwater feeling, hissing, or 'graininess'.

An example of compression artifacts in audio is applause in a relatively highly compressed audio file (e.g. 96 kbit/sec MP3). In general, musical tones have repeating waveforms and more predictable variations in volume, whereas applause is essentially random, therefore hard to compress. A highly compressed track of applause may have 'metallic ringing' and other compression artifacts."

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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:14 pm 
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btw if you're only using the SP404A for FX, it is a 100% waste of money considering you can pirate plug ins that give you the exact same FX

if you produce in a DAW, there's virtually no reason to buy a sampler

the SP404A is also a primitive DJ tool though, so if you were using it for live performances, at least it would be serving some purpose

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:57 pm 
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zendan wrote:
btw if you're only using the SP404A for FX, it is a 100% waste of money considering you can pirate plug ins that give you the exact same FX

if you produce in a DAW, there's virtually no reason to buy a sampler

the SP404A is also a primitive DJ tool though, so if you were using it for live performances, at least it would be serving some purpose


Yep I will definitely use the 404a for live purpose.So you're saying there is no different between the emulation of an analog piece and the original analog piece?


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:09 pm 
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he means that nothing in an sp is analog.
only that it has buttons and 3 knobs. thats the analog parts.
its just that its digital fx are lower quality compared to virtual fx on ur daw. and there's some analog to digital conversion that maybe dirties up the signal, but i actually cant make any difference and i have pretty decent headphones....soooo
if you wanna have a look at how an sp sounds go have a look at the arena there's beats done exclusively on sps and get an idea of how they sound.
analog gear means a hardware compressor, eq or a delay, a sampler is dead on digital.
me i got the og404 and i'm happy with it. its frustrating sometimes but i cant do without it. i had one for 9 years it broke and just now i got a new one for cheaps.
i also have the st224 and love its sound, i think its better than the 303 and cheaper, but the 303 has the classic madlib sound. also the 505 is the same as the 303 but better and cheaper. has same vinsim.
if u wanna make beats on them get anyone so u can bounce the track between the two.
if you make beats on ableton just go for a moog filter or a nice eq or something, so when you record your stuff on the sx you get something usefull out of the gear and some real analog grime.
a cheaper alternative to analog grime is a delay that can go to one repeat, you just turn if full on wet and hear the delayed signal only, no dry tones. also it acts as a cheap compressor kinda, coz it rolz off the transients in a nice way....
thats my 2cents


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:48 pm 
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Orbee wrote:
So you're saying there is no different between the emulation of an analog piece and the original analog piece?


seems you literally read nothing i said
your loss lmao

abuse_it.s_ok wrote:
and there's some analog to digital conversion that maybe dirties up the signal, but i actually cant make any difference and i have pretty decent headphones....soooo


except the SP404SX/A is the only digital hardware sampler i'm aware of that samples in 16bit lossless WAV which means the recorded files are theoretically identical to the source recorded. 100% transparent audio reproduction! it's a beast when working with a high quality turntable/cartridge setup because you get all that quality preserved pristinely rather than digitally crushed through lossy data compression!

abuse_it.s_ok wrote:
if you wanna have a look at how an sp sounds go have a look at the arena there's beats done exclusively on sps and get an idea of how they sound.


there are a lot made exclusively on SPs, but i'd say there might be just as many that use multiple pieces of hardware, sometimes including analog gear! also, hosts usually allow the use of DAW FX processing on the final track for mastering.
and don't forget the most important factor on the recording's characteristics, the source material being recorded. the samples for SPBB can come from literally any source the host decides to provide

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:15 pm 
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abuse_it.s_ok wrote:
analog gear means a hardware compressor, eq or a delay, a sampler is dead on digital.


oh yeah btw hardware compressors are usually analog (several types of analog hardware compressors out there) and there are analog equalizer and delay units out there (very interesting how the circuitry of those units functions!) but most EQ and delay use digital signal processing forsure

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:19 pm 
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zendan wrote:
Orbee wrote:
So you're saying there is no different between the emulation of an analog piece and the original analog piece?


seems you literally read nothing i said
your loss lmao


My first language is not English, so probably i don't understand everything you say.
The question is: Ableton and third party plugin can sound like the vinyl sim compressor of the 303 and the "lofi" kind of sound or the plugin are just a bad emulation of that?


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:01 pm 
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Orbee wrote:
My first language is not English, so probably i don't understand everything you say.
The question is: Ableton and third party plugin can sound like the vinyl sim compressor of the 303 and the "lofi" kind of sound or the plugin are just a bad emulation of that?


i see, sorry for the misunderstanding. you should try to copy/paste it into google translate because it is valuable information for audio engineers/music producers.

there are very high quality vinyl sim emulating plugins out there!
a quick google search yields this as the top result:
https://gearspace.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-and-production/930022-sp303-vinyl-compressor-emulation.html
supposedly with even more parameters/versatility than the original!
vinyl sim is the most distinctive sound on the 303
the only other factors that noticeably color the sound are the A/D converter and the lossy file compression algorithm, the extent of which is usually negligible, unnoticeable to the untrained ear if in standard sampling mode, and even if considering long/lofi sampling modes still easily emulated with computer software (look into bit crushing plugins).
buying an SP solely for one FX algorithm that can be obtained for free is completely pointless and a massive waste of money IMHO.
my advice for software producers is to buy a decent midi keyboard, midi drum pad, and an audio interface if you need to record external audio sources. make sure one of your midi controllers has some control pots on it (you can assign these to parameters in your DAW). these few pieces of equipment used in combination with quality plugins will allow for infinite possibilities.

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:12 am 
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https://goodhertz.co/vulf-comp/

You’re welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:33 am 
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But if you really like the sp303 compressor fx, just get it.
Life is too short to over think gear.

If you get the sp303 and a portable battery, it’s super easy to put anywhere in your chain and super easy to use. Its good for one shots and other sample trigs in your set.


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:32 pm 
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I currently own a 404 OG, I once owned the 505 and deeply regret selling it when I needed cash! I picked it up so cheap and sold it for double what I paid ! No chance of me picking it up as cheap again! I love the 404 for its speed of resampling etc but what I miss from the 505 is the resample with exterior,4 track mutes on the sequencer and autochop! I also think the 505 had a grittier sound, god knows why, I dont really pay attention to bitrate and stuff like that! The vinyl sim on the 505 was more extreme too, the pitch warble seemed to be more noticeable when tweaked! I think it depends what you want, for live I’d go 404 but for making tracks exclusively in an sp, I’d go 505

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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:53 am 
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I haven’t owned the 505 or any of the 404’s, but do have many of the other ones + an MV …I’d recommend the ST-224. It really is grimy and it does many things well. The 303 just ain’t worth the price IMO (and I have 2 303’s). I use my 224 way more than the 303’s.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:11 pm 
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Bandit Lu wrote:


Ye man, i discovered those plugins like 1 week ago and are fuckin awesome. Definitely a good choice


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 Post subject: Re: Should I buy sp404og, sp303,sp505 or st224?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:13 pm 
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zendan wrote:
Orbee wrote:
My first language is not English, so probably i don't understand everything you say.
The question is: Ableton and third party plugin can sound like the vinyl sim compressor of the 303 and the "lofi" kind of sound or the plugin are just a bad emulation of that?


i see, sorry for the misunderstanding. you should try to copy/paste it into google translate because it is valuable information for audio engineers/music producers.

there are very high quality vinyl sim emulating plugins out there!
a quick google search yields this as the top result:
https://gearspace.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-and-production/930022-sp303-vinyl-compressor-emulation.html
supposedly with even more parameters/versatility than the original!
vinyl sim is the most distinctive sound on the 303
the only other factors that noticeably color the sound are the A/D converter and the lossy file compression algorithm, the extent of which is usually negligible, unnoticeable to the untrained ear if in standard sampling mode, and even if considering long/lofi sampling modes still easily emulated with computer software (look into bit crushing plugins).
buying an SP solely for one FX algorithm that can be obtained for free is completely pointless and a massive waste of money IMHO.
my advice for software producers is to buy a decent midi keyboard, midi drum pad, and an audio interface if you need to record external audio sources. make sure one of your midi controllers has some control pots on it (you can assign these to parameters in your DAW). these few pieces of equipment used in combination with quality plugins will allow for infinite possibilities.


No problem, man. Thanks for all the info, for now im following your advices and i'm trying some plugin for emulate the machines


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