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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:37 pm 
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It's enough for most applications. You can get LOADS more with the MS-1, as when you change the sample rate (which is global) all the previously sampled samples change too. So you get 4 sample rates which can bum the pitch/speed up/down by a wide margin, one t'other; each also with -20%/+10% speed change. Only downside is doing it by % isn't always accurate enough (if trying to tune one instrument to another - can't always get bang on) and there are "pitch blind spots" between the sample rates.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:00 pm 
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Since it looks as if I'm getting a Blackbox, the pitching is no longer an issue. This is good cause it means I'm free to choose an old school 202, 303 or 404 and not have to worry about how it handles pitch (cause I can always re-pitch and bounce from the Blackbox (which handles pitch properly and with fine resolution), it's like speeding-up and slowing-down an actual record or cassette).

I'm surprised the Blackbox hasn't been tried by yourself, cause although I have no interest in the ability personally, it has three stereo outs as well as the headphone out and I seem to remember you wanting something like that. Unless perhaps it was Headphones I'm thinking of, he's another one on here who's gear adventures I enjoy reading about, lol.

It also has the benefit of being a host, meaning you can connect pad controllers and keyboards directly to it without needing to go through a computer, so it really is well-designed, minimalist little stand-alone DAW/Sampler/Resampler/Sequencer in a box!


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:40 pm 
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SP-USER wrote:
Since it looks as if I'm getting a Blackbox, the pitching is no longer an issue. This is good cause it means I'm free to choose an old school 202, 303 or 404 and not have to worry about how it handles pitch (cause I can always re-pitch and bounce from the Blackbox (which handles pitch properly and with fine resolution), it's like speeding-up and slowing-down an actual record or cassette).

I'm surprised the Blackbox hasn't been tried by yourself,


That's why I got the S20.

Too modern. New stuff just don't turn me on. It's all screens and coloured light-up buttons and wiping your arse for ya. And no soul.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:41 pm 
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[quote="Run Of The Hind"

Too modern. New stuff just don't turn me on. It's all screens and coloured light-up buttons and wiping your arse for ya. And no soul.[/quote]

That's how I felt for a long time about the new generation of mpcs, but after I tried my homie's mpc one I was hooked as a 2500 user. Since I've sold the 2500 i've been seriously thinking about getting a one, but going back to what you said I don't know if the gimmick will last. Which is why i've also been thinking about copping a 1k.


the blackbox looks dope though

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:12 pm 
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@Run Of The Hind
I know what you mean, but at least the Blackbox appears to be designed by a more mature engineer who appreciates what was good about the old gear (usability), and even the font is old-school 80s, big, chunky and readable, love it!

Only thing I cannot figure out about your own setup is why you prefer an AKAI S20 to a Korg ES-1. To me the Korg ES-1 is better in every possible respect, so I'm kinda surprised that now you have settled on an SP-303 and love it, but have paired it up with an AKAI S20 instead of a Korg ES-1.

Wouldn't an SP-303/ES-1 combination work even better?

Come to think of it, surely a Korg ES-1 would remove the need for even the MS-1 unless perhaps there is sopme polyphony related reason, it could replace the S20 and the MS-1 (as far as I can tell) and isn't that what you really wanted, as least devices as possible?

If I wasn't pairing-up a Blackbox to an SP, I would definitely be picking-up a Korg ES-1 to pair with an SP (an old school SP). You owned an ES-1 yourself I believe, so you must know it has proper pitching over four octaves and even has the same sampling rate as the magnificent Fairlight, so I'm really puzzled about your attraction towards the S20.

@spliffsoldier
Aye, I think it's pretty dope, it even looks as if it has some form of auto-sampler like on the MPCs so that you can grab a VST or a hardware synth and it samples it all into an instrument sample pack ready to play as a chromatic sampler. Don't quote me on that, I'm still looking into it, but it does sound as if it does something along those lines.

If it does I'll be sampling a bunch of Mellotron stuff into it and playing it from the MiniFreak!


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:53 pm 
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SP-USER wrote:
@Run Of The Hind
Only thing I cannot figure out about your own setup is why you prefer an AKAI S20 to a Korg ES-1. To me the Korg ES-1 is better in every possible respect, so I'm kinda surprised that now you have settled on an SP-303 and love it, but have paired it up with an AKAI S20 instead of a Korg ES-1.

Wouldn't an SP-303/ES-1 combination work even better?

Come to think of it, surely a Korg ES-1 would remove the need for even the MS-1 unless perhaps there is sopme polyphony related reason, it could replace the S20 and the MS-1 (as far as I can tell) and isn't that what you really wanted, as least devices as possible?

If I wasn't pairing-up a Blackbox to an SP, I would definitely be picking-up a Korg ES-1 to pair with an SP (an old school SP). You owned an ES-1 yourself I believe, so you must know it has proper pitching over four octaves and even has the same sampling rate as the magnificent Fairlight, so I'm really puzzled about your attraction towards the S20.


The ES-1 was rejected predominantly because the pitch was TOO wide ranging and, therefore, was highly inaccurate. One tiny weeny pot covering that 4 octaves, indeed, with the "big" (relatively speaking) jumps in pitch with each movement that that would imply.
The S20 was cheap (£160 with maxed RAM and gotek), is a bit crunchy (32khz max sample rate, like the ES-1) and can do what I need - i.e. tune samples with accuracy (100 cents per semitone), which is pretty much all it will be doing, for samples going into the 303. As a brucie bonus, I don't even have to fuck about trying to get a drum break at the right pitch manually (which would be a PAIN without a sequencer triggering it) - you chop it, tell the Akai how many beats it is, put in what BPM you want it to be and it pitches it automatically.
It's just a no nonsense, small format desk top sampler that's there to do for the 303 that it itself can't - pitch samples and mute group drum break biznezz. It's a front-end utility sampler for the 303.

The S20 has replaced the MS-1 (due to the latter's inaccurate percentage pitching), which I will be selling.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:12 pm 
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Oh, yes. And I may sample my patterns from the 303 onto the S20's pads individually and then trigger the pattern samples with the QY20 sequencer, so basically using the S20 and QY20 as a way of having a song sequencer, if only to avoid having pattern-swap farts with the 303. Alas, the 303 only triggers samples over MIDI, not patterns, even when in pattern mode.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:53 pm 
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To be honest I often lose track of what you've decided to keep and sell :lol:

I hear you though (although I personally would take the ES-1 over the S20 any day). I like that the ES-1 has a four octave range, cause it comes in handy for doing things like tape and vinyl stop and start effects etc.

And anyway, four octaves is 48 notes, and since the ES-1 has a knob resolution of 128 values (0 -127), that gives you over two counts per note on the knob, so it's not as if it's going to be a problem setting it, or at least it would not bother me. Another option I looked at was the Zoom ST-224, but that definitely would bother me, I hate that they put the control for pitch on a wheel and not a knob.

But anyway, this has got me thinking, what the fuck am I looking at a Blackbox for when the ES-1 is old-school, has proper pitching and is more hands on?

Makes no sense, so I've ditched the idea of the Blackbox now and will get n ES-1 for pitching instead. So all that leaves now is for me to decide which old-school SP I want to pair it up with. Pitching is irrelevant since I can pair whatever SP I get with an ES-1, and I already know what to expect from the 404SX/A, so all I have to do now is look more into the SP202 and SP-303 and decide which old school SP I should go for.

BTW, I know you don't want a MKII 404, but just out of curiosity, why don't you have an old school 404 like the OG/SX/A?


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:25 am 
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Ha ha. Due to my own prejudice against the SX for its association with what I call "SP Bod" culture, that which peaked about 5 years ago. I did actually own one once but only coz it was dirt cheap mint and boxed etc on FB marketplace and I saw an easy flip, which I did for over double my money. Didn't even try it out as it was at the time of the height of my SX cynicism.

The A is, afaik, just the SX with an Aira paint job and seems somehow so much the lesser for it in my eyes. I'm really put off by that, weirdly, even tho the guts are the same. Not that I find the SX attractive, which I really, really don't.

HOWEVER, now I've been enjoying the 303 so much, I've actually started thinking about an SX, lolz. But unless the reverb and tape echo are miles ahead of the 303 and up near the VS880EX standard, it wouldn't be worth it for me. I can do everything with the 303 and S20.


Trust me on the ES-1 pitching. If you've got a drum break you need to loop perfectly or something you need to match something else exactly in pitch, you'll be lucky if it falls right. But you do you. Great for snazzy effects; not for utilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:10 am 
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Yeah, the 'A' is basically an 'SX' with an Aira paint job, and the fact that it shows "SX" on the display when booting up, made me think they had accidentally fitted 'SX' firmware to my 'A'. I asked about it but sadly didn't get a response in time so it ended up getting returned - I'd still have it otherwise.

If the old school SP I decide on happens to be the 404, I'll go for the 'SX' or the 'A' although it really makes no difference whatsoever cause like you said, there's no hardware difference between them, they're 100% identical, they even use identical firmware.

Can't comment on the Tape Echo but I remember being really quite pleased with the Reverb. I especially love the Vinyl Sim, Isolator and Compressor on the 'A', I thought they were very nice and there's no getting away from it, they just don't sound the same on the MKII.

But yeah, it's looking very likely now that I'll go for either an 'A' or 'SX' and pair it up with an ES-1 for pitching and sequencing. Cause that's another thing that's really good about the ES-1, it has a very controllable and editable sequencer and is even multi-timbral. It also has a full-on MIDI DIN specification so it can even drive the 'SX or 'A' via proper MIDI as well as acting as a source and pitching tool for it.

One other very important purpose the ES-1 would serve for an 'SX' or 'A' is that it has Pan control, so that means it can also be used to bounce for Pan, not just Pitch, so that's a really cool 'old-school' combo really!


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Out... BASS
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:54 am 
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Korg monotron is a cool, fun little synth.

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